Why do Dragonlance campaings never work?

Ah, my much-maligned Kender favorites. :)

I think the misunderstanding of Kender are the result of too many "loonies" (of the infamous "real men, real roleplayers, and loonies" trio) over-playing kender. If one reads Tasslehoof Burrfoot in the original series, a better, more SANE picture of Kender emerges. The importance is in the misunderstanding of "fearless." When they say "fearless," I think of it in terms of the fearlessness of children.

Children are a wonderful subject to observe, especially when they are attempting something that, should they know any better, will get them killed. :) The Kender in Arcady's story would likely NOT be bursting into song; he would likely be sneaking up on top-deck to watch the storm, watch the sailors secure the rigging, watching the EXCITEMENT of it all. He recognizes danger and sad attitudes; he just doesn't recognize that something bad could happen to HIM.

Kender, as Tasslehoof shows us, also recognizes when an action would mean the end to ALL fun, FOREVER. A kender wouldn't jump off of the top of Pax Tharkas, and dash himself to pieces on the mountainside, just because he was fearless; however, introduce the concept of a bungee cord to him, and he's the first one in line. He might GET killed doing it, but he would not be hesitant ONE SECOND in strapping up.

Kender thievery is, likewise, conceived as wanton theft of the party's valaubles. Also IMHO a misconception. Based on Tasslehoff's misadventures, he stole items that were mostly useless; he NEVER stole the gem from Raistlin's staff, or any of the companions' main gear and weapons; he stole a paring knife here, a semi-precious gem there, a kerchief, a piece of string, things that made little difference. The one to whom it DID make a difference, was Raistlin, who was possessive of everything, especially his spell components; it took threat of magical torture and death to get him to stop stealing his components. :)

Gully Dwarves (also my favorites) are defintely harder to play, and no doubt are NOT to be trusted in scouting reports ("How many hobgoblins do you see, Mugwump?" "Two... at least two!") But they are not stupid by any stretch - just ignorant.) They have common sense (though not reknowned for it), are very dexterous, and possessed of the singularly impressive ability to forge their way into the nastiest (as in, filth-ridden) situations and not losing their lunch. It would be fun to play a Gully Dwarf Barbarian, or a rogue who pinched the pockets of NPC's who took pity on him for his wretched look. Listen, anyone who can play a Nosferatu in Vampire the Masquerade ought to find it a BREEZE to play an Aghar Dwarf. :)

The setting of Dragonlance is one of great strife, but not set in stone. RP opportunities abound in ANY setting where there are a main group of characters, if the DM is clever. For instance, What was happening In Ansalon during the Whitestone Council? What actions were going on in Palanthas while the Heroes of the Lance were fighting in Pax Tharkas? We know that others fought the Dragonarmies while the Heroes were seeking out the orbs/the arm/the lancemetal, etc. What are their stories, and why haven't we heard of them? If a DM wants to be totally consistent, there are gaps in ANY story, areas where news comes to the main movers of actions off-stage; who accomplished those actions?

The reason why so many fail, is I think due to misconception as much as anything. "That staid Tolkien rip-off setting with the Kender" is what kills it; what makes it work is what makes ANY campaign work - a DM who can make his players enthused about the game.
 
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Joshua Dyal said:
The many settings that came out after DL during the 2e days were almost all as roleplaying intensive, if not moreso, than DL by virtue of the focus of the settings and the tone and themes explored in their main books: Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Planescape, etc.

I'll agree with that, though the focus of the above settings are all so different from most fantasy that the differences are the focus, even if they do lead to more intensive roleplaying. In my opinion, the niche that DL is going for is the familiar fantasy that lots of folks know and love, but with the emphasis shifted more towards story and drama over other aspects of the game.
 

Dragonlance campaigns never worked for me for two reasons:

1) You always feel like second fiddle to the greats from the 3rd and 4th ages.
2) The whole Tower of Sorcery thing now being dismantled isn't that good.

It's a nice play to maybe play a few games in and run occasionally, but I don't ever seeing myself being as enchanted by it as I was reading the books. Unless of course I get to be a Minataur! :)
 

Nightfall said:
Dragonlance campaigns never worked for me for two reasons:

1) You always feel like second fiddle to the greats from the 3rd and 4th ages.
2) The whole Tower of Sorcery thing now being dismantled isn't that good.

It's a nice play to maybe play a few games in and run occasionally, but I don't ever seeing myself being as enchanted by it as I was reading the books. Unless of course I get to be a Minataur! :)

Let me add a caveat that one of the more enjoyable things about DragonLance for me was the pre-Fifth Age material; it became far less recognizable after that point, and unfortunately causing me so much disdain for the storyline at that point that I usually leave it out or play a timeline prior to that point when playing DL.
 

Although I have to add, I'm too in love with homebrewing to ever be really excited about any setting, Dragonlance included. Some of the ideas it has are really good -- the whole dragon wars and legions of dragons, draconians and the like based on color is a great idea, and one I could really Get Down Tonight on. The new Draconomicon book also really gets me much more excited about dragons than I otherwise would be.

But there's so many other things about the setting that I don't like; either because I think they're silly (kender, gully dwarves, tinker gnomes) or overly cliche.

I'd like to make the completely unsupported and unsupportable claim at this point that only homebrews facilitate deep immersion roleplaying. :)
 

Davelozzi said:
I'll agree with that, though the focus of the above settings are all so different from most fantasy that the differences are the focus, even if they do lead to more intensive roleplaying. In my opinion, the niche that DL is going for is the familiar fantasy that lots of folks know and love, but with the emphasis shifted more towards story and drama over other aspects of the game.
That's a good point. 3e FR is probably just as good about this, though. For that matter, 2e FR probably was too; there's so much information available that is useful to faciliate roleplaying that you could do it easier than falling off a log.

Perhaps Dragonlance's best contribution to RPGs as a whole (regardless of it's merits as a setting in its own right) are how it was the first setting tied to a novel line, which facilitated a deeper level of development than had ever been seen before.
 
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Joshua, DLance has a wonderful feat called HonorBound, which is a feat that managed to combine both RP and balance and, note well, not screw things up like BoED.

I spent $ on that book just because of that one feat. Note to WotC if you're reading this. (PS WotC, please do not post terrible PrCs like the Knight of the Crown again. HonorBound > Knight of the Crown.)
 

Henry said:
Let me add a caveat that one of the more enjoyable things about DragonLance for me was the pre-Fifth Age material; it became far less recognizable after that point, and unfortunately causing me so much disdain for the storyline at that point that I usually leave it out or play a timeline prior to that point when playing DL.
Funny I feel the exact opposite. War of Souls 5th age is better now than before. But not sure I feel like being judged against what's being written now.
 

Matthew L. Martin said:
_Dragons of Summer Flame_ came from the pens of Weis & Hickman; the only major change TSR made to it, to the best of my knowledge, was to compress it down from a trilogy to a single book. The Fifth Age was proposed by DL fans on staff and accepted by Management _after_ the book was written and pushed to bookstores; TSR demanded that it be non-AD&D, for a variety of reasons (low sales on the AD&D versions of DL and legal concerns regarding the movie license have been cited), and the designers came up with the SAGA System.

Ok, I see. This was stuff that happened right around the same time I started getting involved in D&D, so I don't know all the different details. Why did Weis and Hickman decide on such a radical change to the world that would have a direct impact on character classes anyway?
 
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Orius said:
Ok, I see. This was stuff that happened right around the same time I started getting involved in D&D, so I don't know all the different details. Why did Weis and Hickman decide on such a radical change to the world that would have a direct impact on character classes anyway?

This is a much-debated topic among DL fandom. They either wanted to shake up the world and move it forward, or close the book on it entirely. The game line had died one or two years before DoSF was published (it depends on whether you count the _Classics, Vol. III_ reprint as new product or not), anyway.

Matthew L. Martin
 

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