why do folks hate gnomes?

[Henry]

Remember one thing - The Forgotten Realms ALSO latched on to the "Gnome as tinker" stereotype - only to a lesser degree.

Remember the Isle of Lantan, which has a mostly gnome population? Gond the Wonderbringer, who appeared as a Gnome Avatar in the Time of Troubles? He brought smoke powder to the realms in that visit.

I myself, loved TInker gnomes, which were an elegant part of the quirky mix known as the Dragonlance setting. However, TSR made the mistake of spreading the "Gnome as tinker" concept all over the darned place, including to some other settings where it did not belong - Spelljammer and Forgotten Realms, in my opinion. (I think they were mentioned in Planescape, too!)

I like the gnomes as described in 3E, and hope they will continue to be a part of the game.

 

[alsih2o]

Serious answer:

I don't see the role that gnomes occupy.

Are they magically inclined, like elves?
Are they mechanically inclined, like dwarves?
Are they short & happy, like halflings?

so, why not eliminate elves, dwarves or halflings?

 

[Darkness]

so, why not eliminate elves, dwarves or halflings?

Read his post closely; it's in there, trust me.

 

[alsih2o]

Read his post closely; it's in there, trust me.

that's the thing, it isn't. why are gnomes the add-on, and not the other core races? by his standard aren't dwarves just "deep-mountain gnomes"? aren't halflings just less talented gnomes? aren't elves just powerhungry gnomes?

it is still the feeling that gnomes were tacked on, why them? why not consider gnomes as the base, with other races tacked on?

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

so, why not eliminate elves, dwarves or halflings?

I think that's a fair question and I don't really have a response to it. Probably because my players are comfortable with the "traditional" fantasy types in Lord of the Rings.

Yes, as a DM I could create a world where there were no elves and Dwarves and Halflings fought Goblins with the aid of the magical Gnomes. But my playes want their elves. I know one guy in particular who simply likes playing elves. What can I say? It's their game too, after all.

But when I say, "Sorry, I couldn't find a place for Gnomes in my world, but I'll let you play Orcs and Dark Elves" they seem to take to it in stride and even generate some extra interest.

 

[Darkness]

that's the thing, it isn't. why are gnomes the add-on, and not the other core races? by his standard aren't dwarves just "deep-mountain gnomes"? aren't halflings just less talented gnomes? aren't elves just powerhungry gnomes?

it is still the feeling that gnomes were tacked on, why them? why not consider gnomes as the base, with other races tacked on?

I see where you're coming from now... I don't think that I'd see it this way, but still.

 

[Fenes 2]

I honestly hate gnomes - the bad gnomes I have encountered to be exact. That hate has been fostered by years of conditioning. Tinker gnome comic relief followed up by a gnomish illusionist variant of a kender, followed by crazy gnome NPCs and the occasional crazy gnome PC took their toll and tainted my view of gnomes.

Gnomes are not serious enough for me nowadays. The embody the stereotypical comic relief and ruin my sense of disbelief and my immersion in the fnatasy world. I hate technojammer, gnomium bombs, gnomish gatling guns and all the other stupid mistakes some writers come up with that have no place in my view of a fantasy world (heck, gunpowder ruins a fantasy world for me).

Gnomes that were less prone to be comical figures, more serious, more "fairy-touched", less like a reckless variant of dwarves obsessed with technical oddities. such gnomes I could tolerate.

 

[alsih2o]

I see where you're coming from now...

well, if english was my first language i would state my question better.



oh, wait, it is....man, that's embarassing.

 

[Darkness]

well, if english was my first language i would state my question better.



oh, wait, it is....man, that's embarassing.

You probably just were too caught up in concocting schemes on how to annoy Piratecat.

 

[Gez]

BiggusGeekus@Work:

I don't see the role that gnomes occupy.
Do they need to ? Do anyone need to ? (Yes, it's a role-playing game !)
OK. They are the wise people who know. Your characters need to find the complete prophecy about so-or-so ? The library with the fabled lore they need is run by gnomes.

That's how I always seen them, and always will. Remember that the very word "gnome" comes from the greek "gnosis", which just mean... Knowledge. Mythically, gnomes were the little fey who knew every secret of nature and alchemy, and that alchemists associated with Hermes.

Note the +2 racial bonus to Alchemy back that. Yeah, they speak about good sense of smell, wadada, wadada. But then, why don't half-orcs this bonus too ?

Their inquisitive mind put them to search every lore they can. Gnome communities are often secluded and calm, just for the same reasons places of knowledge are secluded and calm.

Their ability to speak with animals derive from this innate wisdom they have. And their free cantrips just prove that every gnome is at least a little bit a wizard.

Are they magically inclined, like elves? Yes. Even more than elves. Elves are inclined to learn magic because they love it. Gnomes are inclined to perform magic because it's just in them.
Are they mechanically inclined, like dwarves? No ! They're smart enough to understand mechanisms, but as a whole, they are not attracted by that. Go back, you awful krynnish tinkers ! You sully the name of gnome ! Begone, may have you never existed !
Are they short & happy, like halflings? Yes, they're short. But remember that everyone is short, save for humans and half-orcs. Gnomes happen to be between dwarves and halflings in the shortness rating.

When I think of the other core races I see a place for them.
You're blind, then.



By the way, don't be afraid of getting a little out of context. Every race are used out of context.

The lawful good dwarves seem to be always depicted as wild dirty frantic berserkers, with a genocidal attitude toward their racial enemies (orcs, goblinoids, and frequently elves). That ain't in context to me.

The chaotic good elves who love to study magic and thus have a favored class of wizard seem to be always depicted as distant, haughty, hierarchical creatures of pure light and magic, living in a centralized empire, obeying millenia old traditions, and giving a paramount importance to bloodline -- especially purity of bloodline -- while considering all other race to be at best, harmless annoyance, at worst, foes that must be eradicated; and somewhere in the middle, slaves.

Halflings of today are a strange cross between hobbits and kenders, with a small amount of gypsie thrown in. As a result, they are seldom used as described.