D&D 5E Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[Minigiant]

Agree. They could have those tiers, but it should be strictly optional. And to be honest, personally, if high levels shifted to more of a domain management and faction power dynamics, i would rather play Houses of the Bloodied that is designed for that kind of games. D&D just isn't good at that kind of games from mechanics standpoint.

I think High Level D&D should just default to short planar romps. Domains and Politics is not natural aspects to is mechanics. D&D is "Go to place. Dodge the trap. Break the door. Kill the guy"..

High level D&D should just focus more on it and embrace that high level PCs can skip steps..

I remember once Jeremy Crawford saying the World Tree Barbarian would be able to teleport the party across the planes via the World Tree. Didn't make the cut.

Gloomstalker Rangers are Shadowfell focused and Fey Wanderers are Feywild focuses. Neither can travel to their respective planes.

Rather than embrace the "Planeshift, Battering Ram, Nova" nature of high power D&D, D&D runs from it.

 

[Reynard]

It may have become self fulfilling but the sales numbers for some older product is out there.

The high selling stuff is basically core books, Basic boxes and Gary Gygax adventures and a few like B4 and X1. The made adventures for CM part of BECMI

Paizo said something similar. OGL has been around 25 years. 2E and 3E had products like High Level Campaigns, Netheril, Epic Level Handbook. Dungeon magazine had several adventures.

If there was massive demand for it someone would do it. Product was made.

Yes, let's use 30 and 20 year old data.

 

[Minigiant]

You're claiming all the high level stuff created is low quality?

I'm claiming the High Level core rules are low quality

So you end up at best putting good sauce on meh meat.

It's like the 2014 monk. They didn't try to make a good monk. They tried to remake the bad 3e monk. My theory is that no one in the design team really cared about monks to fight tradition and make a good one. When the community put a fire on their butts for 2024...

 

[Micah Sweet]

Agree. They could have those tiers, but it should be strictly optional. And to be honest, personally, if high levels shifted to more of a domain management and faction power dynamics, i would rather play Houses of the Bloodied that is designed for that kind of games. D&D just isn't good at that kind of games from mechanics standpoint.

This why you add mechanics. One of those modules you used to hear about.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, let's use 30 and 20 year old data.

There's not really much newer data though except lack of higher level stuff.

If there was demand for it logically someone would make it. If only 5% play high level though there's your answer.

I suspect that's the main reason. If you've got any new data or a good high level adventure to suggest.....

 

[tetrasodium]

We're just going to have to agree to disagree. I don't think lack of consideration = deliberate design for one shots. Even unsupported, I've run multiple high level 5e campaigns just fine. I was just frustrated by the lack of diversity in high level monsters. 3pp folks helped there.

Deliberate design for simplicity. That deliberate choice has consequences. Some of those consequences impact things you yourself stated that wotc doesn't consider

 

[Reynard]

There's not really much newer data though except lack of higher level stuff.

If there was demand for it logically someone would make it. If only 5% play high level though there's your answer.

I suspect that's the main reason. If you've got any new data or a good high level adventure to suggest.....

I am explicitly saying that I think tat if WotC chose to make high level play a thing, players would likely follow.

 

[Reynard]

I am running a series of high (17th) level one shot "lair assault" type adventures at a convention in April. I am going to design some lovely fallen god monsters using techniques found in Flee! Mortals, Monstrous Menagerie and other cool 5E monster creation books.

Assuming it goes well and I can get art and stuff together, I am going to publish them afterwards.

 

[Maxperson]

Deliberate design for simplicity. That deliberate choice has consequences. Some of those consequences impact things you yourself stated that wotc doesn't consider

That doesn't mean deliberately designed high level to one shots only. They may have just not cared or thought about high level that much. Consequences can be and often are unintended.

 

[Zardnaar]

I am explicitly saying that I think tat if WotC chose to make high level play a thing, players would likely follow.

Maybe. That's also pure speculation.