D&D 5E Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[pemerton]

Sure... but isn't the point of this thread asking why more people don't play high-level games, not why people are not choosing to play the game WotC/TSR published in the manner they did? To which one of the answers is that we just don't need to play high-level games. There is nothing high-level games have that can't also be had with lower-level games via the use of house-ruling and adjustment (regardless of what or how WotC publishes their material.)

So if it would normally take a table 2 years to reach high-level and then use the high-level material that WotC publishes for it... or tables can use that material a year-and-a-half earlier by just de-leveling it... this could explain why tables aren't bothering to go for or ever reach high-level games.

Is there any evidence that a large number of tables are "de-levelling" published material? That they are playing PCs vs Dukes of Hell but using the stats/mechanics for 5th level PCs?

I mean, I've never encountered evidence of that that I'm aware of.

To me, it seems that most people are simply not using those themes and tropes in their D&D play.

 

[Maxperson]

There is a major point being missed.

There are many ways to run a high level game.

High level epic fantasy is different from high level political fantasy or high level heroic fantasy or high level beer and pretzel fantasy.

WOTC supports 1 of 10 types of high level. That 1 is not the most popular type of high level fantasy.

WotC may not support 10(or whatever the real number is) types of high level play, but they absolutely support more than 1 type.

 

[Maxperson]

Is there any evidence that a large number of tables are "de-levelling" published material? That they are playing PCs vs Dukes of Hell but using the stats/mechanics for 5th level PCs?

I mean, I've never encountered evidence of that that I'm aware of.

To me, it seems that most people are simply not using those themes and tropes in their D&D play.

I've certainly never seen or heard of it happening.

 

[Minigiant]

WotC may not support 10(or whatever the real number is) types of high level play, but they absolutely support more than 1 type.

5e supports 2 types of high level play out the core 3 books.

WOTC actively only support 1 of the 2 with supplemental products.

Neither are the type many 5e fans want to play.

 

[Maxperson]

5e supports 2 types of high level play out the core 3 books.

WOTC actively only support 1 of the 2 with supplemental products.

Neither are the type many 5e fans want to play.

I mean, what do you consider types of high level play? I can think of 3 at least that are supported. Social play, plane spanning adventures, and homebound(world of origin adventures). Heck, if you include creation of artifacts/relics, you can do that with 5e as well. So that's 4 ways to play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

5e supports 2 types of high level play out the core 3 books.

WOTC actively only support 1 of the 2 with supplemental products.

Neither are the type many 5e fans want to play.

How are you defining the two types, and what other type do you think 5e fans want to play? Not disagreeing, just looking for understanding.

 

[GrimCo]

I've certainly never seen or heard of it happening.

I did it once and never will again. At that point, you may as well just homebrew monster stat block and just use official fluff. On the other hand, i did see (and did myself) decent amount of powering up lower level monsters for higher level play. Low to mid levels are covered with abundance of choices straight out of MM, there is no need to use depowered high level ones, unless for very specific campaign reason, like i did in one campaign with balor that was recurring antagonist and henchmen to one of vilains (he was bound by powerful ritual that "blocked" most of it's power but rendered him immortal while bound ). They fought him as CR8 CR12 CR16 and finally as CR19. It was fun, but decent amount of work.

 

[Minigiant]

I mean, what do you consider types of high level play? I can think of 3 at least that are supported. Social play, plane spanning adventures, and homebound(world of origin adventures). Heck, if you include creation of artifacts/relics, you can do that with 5e as well. So that's 4 ways to play.

How are you defining the two types, and what other type do you think 5e fans want to play? Not disagreeing, just looking for understanding.

I mean

5e supports

• High power Beer and Pretzel Dungeoneering
• High power Combat as War, Deadly Grinders

Not

• High power Semi serious Dungeoneering
• High power Narrative Set Pieces
• High power Urban Adventure
• High power Wilderness Treks
• Involved Political Intrigue and Relationship Building
• Mysterious Investigation of growing high powered threats
• Tactical Wargaming with PCs as Elites
• Strategic Domain play
• Tactical Domain play
• High powered Heist and AntiHeist play
• Research and gathering of parts for creating gear for one of the above

You need additional material or other systems to run those

 

[Maxperson]

I did it once and never will again. At that point, you may as well just homebrew monster stat block and just use official fluff. On the other hand, i did see (and did myself) decent amount of powering up lower level monsters for higher level play. Low to mid levels are covered with abundance of choices straight out of MM, there is no need to use depowered high level ones, unless for very specific campaign reason, like i did in one campaign with balor that was recurring antagonist and henchmen to one of vilains (he was bound by powerful ritual that "blocked" most of it's power but rendered him immortal while bound ). They fought him as CR8 CR12 CR16 and finally as CR19. It was fun, but decent amount of work.

Yeah. I've seen and done that as well.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I did it once and never will again. At that point, you may as well just homebrew monster stat block and just use official fluff. On the other hand, i did see (and did myself) decent amount of powering up lower level monsters for higher level play. Low to mid levels are covered with abundance of choices straight out of MM, there is no need to use depowered high level ones, unless for very specific campaign reason, like i did in one campaign with balor that was recurring antagonist and henchmen to one of vilains (he was bound by powerful ritual that "blocked" most of it's power but rendered him immortal while bound ). They fought him as CR8 CR12 CR16 and finally as CR19. It was fun, but decent amount of work.

I once had players fight an Aspect of Dagon that was really just a wastrilith. They are thematically appropriate and hit hard for their CR, almost leading to a TPK with four ghoul buddies in tow.