Why do I complain about 4E?

[Tsyr]

No, it's not.

Paizo could have decided to produce Pathfinder APs as 3.5, and produce their Game Mastery modules in 4.0, for instance, because both are different product lines.

Where's the dilemma for the company?

What if they wanted to publish both products in both settings?

Oooops. Dilemma.

Having two products doesn't mean having no dilemma. And not all companies have two product lines.

 

[Rechan]

What if they wanted to publish both products in both settings?

Oooops. Dilemma.

A dilemma does not kill 3.5. Choosing to split them is not as good as being able to combine them, but it doesn't stop them from making them and it doesn't stop them from profiting from both.

It's not a dilemma to decide to benefit from both rather than one.

And not all companies have two product lines.

Bull. It's not at all difficult to make two product lines. Most have them.

 

[Crothian]

Then help me out here.... I've seen hardly any new 3.x material. very little at my local FLGS since the announcement of 4.0. None at any of the other book stores. Wizards went out of their way to kill all 3.x releases. What do we have to talk about? Pathfinder and precious little else, but it's been decreed around here that Pathifinder is inadmissible in the General Forum.

First off you don't want Pathfinder in this forum. It will get buried by the 4e threads because that is so much stronger. You want Pathfinder in the forum it is in so it can thrive though granted it gets very little love over here.

Wizards had some fine books in the past year. Not as many as previous years but they were still pretty good. And they didn't go out of their way to kill it. They had been on that path for a while, that's why we had so many 4e is coming threads even before it was announced.

If your stores don't have them go ask them why. And if they won't get them shop on line. We know about what Wizards did this past year we know about Pathfinder and Piazo's modules. So, I'm not going to talk about those. I'm also not going into the many great things that have come out for True 20 or other OGL games. Also, I have no idea if the companies and product I am going to talk about are going to stay with 3ed. You'll have to ask them. This is not by any means a complete list of what is out there. This was me going to my book shelf and spending about 5 minutes getting titles and examples of things.

Kalamar: Kenzer has a great setting. I have no idea if they have announced their future plans for it. This year we got a great book called Svimohzia. It is a Africa inspired continent. Combine this with the books Atlas (I think it was them) put out and you have a great inspiration for your own dark continent campaign.

Secret of Pact Magic by Radiance House: I'll admit this is not a book I will use. I'm not big on new magical options. But if you want a new take on Binders and other things and a book filled with character options this is for you. It is over 300 pages and it is very well done.

Dreamwalker Revised by Empty Room Studios: It is more for d20 Modern. It takes the game into people's dreams and it is a really good job of it.

d20 Freeport Companion: If you want Freeport (and who doesn't? ) this is the book to go along with their systemless Pirates Guide. It is filled with d20 goodness and like pretty much everything Green Ronin puts out is is both good and easy to use without Freeport.

City of Brass by Necromancer: It's awesome. It's one of the oldest books I'm going to take about as it came out Gen Con 2007. And granted it is no book, but a box set. But it is awesome.

Amethyst by Dias Ex Machina Games: We have had a thread on this and I think it did some good. It is a creative take on using d20 and mixing modern with fantasy.

Arcanis stuff by Paradigm: These guys do not get enough love from us. Paradigm has been putting out great books and modules for their setting. And like any good setting these items can be used with your own homebrew. Right now I'm looking at Psionics Unleashed and it some of the best third party psionics support you will see. These guys are good and I imagine not many of us have their books so you have a whole back catagolue of products to go out and discover.

Warcraft! by Sword and Sorcery: I'm no WoW player so I can't speak to how well they do the book like the video game. But the books are well done and seem neat.

Echoes of Heaven by Final Redoubt Press, Inc: This is a new setting that mixes heaven and hell. Literally.

Desire and the Dead by Planeswalker.com: It shocked me to learn they made a module. My first thought was Can they do that? But they did and it feels like Planscape.

And if you want modules

Green Ronin has the Bleeding Edge Modules. This are darker and a little more like fantasy horror. I have them all (I think) you should too.

Goodman Games of course has the Dungeon Crawl Classics. They are good, I like them. They also have Wicked Fantasy Factory line of adventures.

Lasted is good old Expeditious Retreat: They have a very cool line of adventures designed for solos. But they can be played with a group, I've done it.

And that's just based on the stuff I have. I'm sure I missed things. Publishers announce stuff in the Publisher forum. Check there and keep your ears open. E-mail companies,ask questions, do some research. 3ed will dry up if the companies don't see people buying and talking about their stuff.

 

[Tsyr]

Since I just saw Plane Sailing's sticky, I'm going to call my participation in this thread over, we don't agree and frankly you haven't really been responding to what I've been saying, so continuing it is kind of pointless anyways.

G'day.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Firstly, if you are going to spend a whole lot of money on printing new rulebooks, why not spend some time fixing the acknowledged errors, flaws and bugs in the 3.5 Ruleset. The most glaring example would be something like the Grapple rules. Would it be wise for a small company like Paizo to put all that cash in and not fix some of those errors?

No, because if the goal is to make it stay compatible with 3.5, making it not compatible with 3.5 is violating their own mandate. It's like everyone started off with a goal in mind, but got excited about the possibility of fixing 3.5, and don't seem to notice that means they're no longer heading for their original destination.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Hey Ari, your quick enough to condemn the OP for negative attitudes to 4th ed fans, you think this is better or somehow more justified because it's pro 4th ed? All I see is broad insults against an entire group of people who don't agree with the poster, wasn't that your problem with the OP?

Put out another Academy Handbook, please. Start with the illusion one, preferably.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Same here. Pathfinder keeps developing into areal turn-off. I understood Paizo's decision *not* to go 4E, and while I like 4E a lot, I intended to keep getting Paizo's modules for conversion.

Now, as Pathfinder becomes less 3.5E, this intent slowly vanishes.

I'm hoping they do more (nearly) systemless stuff like Classic Monsters Revisited. With so little fluff in the 4E MM, now is the time to crank out books like this.

 

[GeorgeFields]

Some people have asked (with genuine curiosity, I think), why those of us who aren't moving from 3.5 to 4E continue to read about the new edition and complain about it.

For me, it's the train wreck effect.

I don't hate 4e or bash it (anymore), publicly, anyway; but it's not for me. Reading the stuff about 4e and the reactions between those for and against 4e has become one of my favorite forms of entertainment.

I think both sides need to chill out and play the game they enjoy; be it 4e, 3.x, GURPS, or Chutes & Ladders.

 

[Piratecat]

What do we have to talk about? Pathfinder and precious little else, but it's been decreed around here that Pathifinder is inadmissible in the General Forum.

I think you're laboring under false information; this is incorrect. Rules discussions for Pathfinder take place in their rules forum, but general discussions about Pathfinder and its releases should take place in the main forum. We changed it when we did the forum re-org, and tried to make that as clear as possible. Please let other people know if they're also mistaken.

Holler if you have any questions about this.

 

[Uzzy]

No, because if the goal is to make it stay compatible with 3.5, making it not compatible with 3.5 is violating their own mandate. It's like everyone started off with a goal in mind, but got excited about the possibility of fixing 3.5, and don't seem to notice that means they're no longer heading for their original destination.

Firstly, I disagree with the level of compatibility. I think the Alpha documents are compatible with 3.5, just like 3.0 is compatible with 3.5. It is not a whole lot of work to convert. Really isn't.

Secondly, they've only released the Alpha versions of the Pathfinder rules. At least give the Beta rules a look. I think in the Alpha they put out a lot of different rules, in order to see which ones worked, which one's didn't. The Beta may be better for you.