Why do most groups avoid planar games?

[Shade]

I guess I'm fortunate, for in both the campaign I DM and the one I play in, we spent more time on extraplanar adventures than on the Material.

 

[Psion]

The sad thing is I've been making notes for "101 Planar Secrets" and so far they've been as weird as the Princess (or weirder in some instances).

Cool. How fleshed out would these be? A paragraph, a sentence, or what?

 

[Aust Diamondew]

For one thing there is so many of 'em its hard as a player or as a DM to keep up with 'em all. The Manual of the Planes they have 30 some planes. So if you run a typical D&D campaign setting it's easier just to ignore them. Next homebrew I run I'm going to cut the number of major planes down to 10 or so.

I also prefer a less over the top fantasy game so I tend to stay away from things like planes.
Though next game I run will probably be set in the mythological norse universe meaning there will be 9 worlds.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'm not sure what you are saying here in the second half of your statement. Most planes are not like the plane of fire when it comes to survivability requirements. (And even that doesn't exactly take high level magic to negotiate.)

Some may feel that the survivability factor requires too much investment to overcome.

 

[philreed]

Cool. How fleshed out would these be? A paragraph, a sentence, or what?

Between a few paragraphs to half a page for each one. Probably about a 40-48 page PDF.

 

[Psion]

Between a few paragraphs to half a page for each one. Probably about a 40-48 page PDF.

Wow... that's pretty significant. Any chance of seeing this soon?

 

[BryonD]

I know I can't make anyone like anything they don't, but there seem to be a few foregone assumptions about what the planes must be like, and are avoiding the planes because of it. Perhaps if you realize that there is more to planar gaming than the Great Wheel, more people would try it.

You're certainly correct here.

I'm guilty of it in many respects. I seem to be in a limbo between seeing that it doesn't have to be that way and actually implementing a wider view.

 

[Celebrim]

That seems like a pretty broad assertion. I mean, I see many people who think it should be that way. That's one thing.

But that it is? What do you base this on? I've run multiple forays into the planes at low levels, one starting at 1st. Do you not know anyone who runs low level planar games? Do you know anyone who planar games? Turning to published adventures as a standard, only one planescape published adventure that I know of is above 12th level (but it's a doozy...). Or do you only base this assertion on what has appeared in dungeon recently (shame on Dungeon...)

I think that this assertion goes back to my fourth point. If the planes are some place so ordinary that even first level players are running around doing rather mundane (if heroic) things, then the planes are reduced to being no more grand than any other world. The temptation to introduce the planes at first level is not I would think particularly strong, nor is it immediately obvious (unless you've read Planescape or Beyond Countless Doorways) how you might go about doing it.

But more to the point, I base this assumption about what is typical on a bit of common sense. I'm well aware that some people have run planar adventures starting at first level with little mini-cutters roaming around doing mini-cutter stuff in little demi-planes. In fact, I happen to own a very old published module - UK1 'The Crystal Cave' - which is a quite good example of exactly that. But I doubt its very typical. For one thing, all of the means by which a party could travel at will back and forth to the planes are fairly high level spells, and most of the monsters and challenges that one would meet on the planes are by thier common descriptions well beyond the abilities of low level characters. I don't really see the point, as I would typically include anything that's only mundanely fantastic (whether flying castles, or doors to remote places, or places where the laws of nature were slightly different, or whatever it is I wanted) as part of my 'prime' world and would see little or no reason to think of the place as being a different plane.

 

[philreed]

Wow... that's pretty significant. Any chance of seeing this soon?

Probably not soon. A few months would be my guess. I have several other projects to finish before I start writing this (so far I'm on the note/idea stage).

I think that this assertion goes back to my fourth point. If the planes are some place so ordinary that even first level players are running around doing rather mundane (if heroic) things, then the planes are reduced to being no more grand than any other world.

I don't see it that way. For one thing, first level characters will likely have to rely on others and objects to travel between planes. And there's no reason why low-level characters can't have diplomatic and social encounters with high-level characters and creatures – it can even be fun.

 

[Henry]

You're certainly correct here.

I'm guilty of it in many respects. I seem to be in a limbo between seeing that it doesn't have to be that way and actually implementing a wider view.

Ditto, here. I wouldn't be averse to a lower-level planar based game, but it always feels like it's not "getting justice" to me. Having a rich environment is one thing, but 90% of the inhabitants of the Great Wheel Outer Planes could slash mortal low-level adventurers to ribbons in a single fit of pique on their home territories (like the 'loths, Tanar'ri, and Baatezu that Shemeska's description mentions).

In a neutral ground (like Sigil) these Daemons, Devils, and Demons would be fun to interact with for sure, and negotiations on their home planes would be the most tense thing imaginable (and thus even more fun! ) because one wrong word or insinuation will probably mean death (or a stiff fight, at the least).

I love ideas like the Iron City of Dis, like Pluto's realm in Hades (whichever plane it's supposed to be), places where death is not assured, but it's still a hostile place to be, as the bastions of safety that extraplanar adventurers can cling to when being "pilgrims in an unholy land."

But then, in the end I'm of the "old school" as Psion puts it, and cling to the "pilgrims in an unholy land" view of Outer Planes adventuring rather than the more "cosmopolitan" view, for lack of a better term. I find it hard to put something "one gate away" as a means to an adventure, until the party has an ability to make those gates themselves, and even then plane shifts and the like don't mean an exact location, but travel and adventure are still involved.

If and when our group resumes our Eberron campaign (hopefully late this year) some planar expeditions may be written in because the PCs are powerful enough for it, and it can pose some interesting problems for them to solve - things that can only be made in certain places, or seeking people that can only be found... elsewhere.