Why do most groups avoid planar games?

[Psion]

I am done being cynical, if honest.

Dude, after the first 2 or 3 botches, I finally came to accept that there was no way WotC was going to do Planescape justice.

 

[Turjan]

I think the point with the cant is the endless repetition of the words Barmies, Basher, Berk, Cutter, Sod and, to a lesser extent, Bloods. It's just a few words, but you get to read them over and over and over...

 

[philreed]

Dude, after the first 2 or 3 botches, I finally came to accept that there was no way WotC was going to do Planescape justice.

So who would do a good job with a new edition of Planescape? I'd love a chance to buy a big hardcover -- say 320 pages or so.

EDIT: Companies I would like to see get a chance at this include FFG and GR.

EDIT AGAIN: Or maybe I can find an investor with $25,000 or so -- then Ronin Arts could attempt for the license and do that big hardcover.

 

[Psion]

So who would do a good job with a new edition of Planescape? I'd love a chance to buy a big hardcover -- say 320 pages or so.

/me slips into a dream-like trance.

EDIT AGAIN: Or maybe I can find an investor with $25,000 or so

/me snaps awake

Well, so much for that...

 

[philreed]

Well, so much for that...

I know. But dreams are free.

 

[Umbran]

I don't think you can fairly universalize this sort of argument.

You keep using that term - "universalize". I am not sure it means what you think it means.

I'm not trying to universalize. I'm suggesting we try to generalize, which is not quite the same thing.

Sure, you can make a case that one sort of campaigning lacks some sort of attribute and grants others, but the relative "enjoyment" value of any of these attributes would vary widely from group to group or from GM to GM.

True. But the point isn't to find a single universal set of things all people definitely like or dislike. The idea is to find a larger set of things that are fairly common. We are mostly intelligent, experienced players and DMs here. We are capable of seeing past out own prejudices, especially if we work like a team, instead of haggling amongst ourselves over who has something right or wrong.

For Phil's use, countering the incorrect assumptions in this thread is not so constructive. He can do that himself in his products, what he knows what the common complaints are.

So, what do I get out of planar gaming that I don't get elsewhere? Exotic locations? Nope, I can get those "planetside". Strange races? No, those, too can exist on a single plane. What do planar games have that other games don't?

Phil asks, "Why don't they like it?" The first step in the respons is to ask, "Why should they bother with it over something else? What does it have that they aren't already getting?"

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I really liked Manual of the Planes. (I did not have it's 2E precursor, but still.) It's a really cool, inspiring volume IMO. YMMV of course.

One point that I don't think has come out in this discussion is that anecdotally, campaigns into the transitive planes (Astral, Ethereal and Shadow) seem to be fun. Everyone likes to go raid githyanki and githzerai strongholds. Is it because you get cool loot? Or because they are nasty opponents you like to beat up on? The 1E adventures with Fedifensor was a huge hit for my group over 20 years ago, and when I ran a Shadow Plane adventure in 3E they enjoyed it.

 

[Psion]

You keep using that term - "universalize". I am not sure it means what you think it means.

I'm not trying to universalize. I'm suggesting we try to generalize, which is not quite the same thing.

Call it what you like. What it boils down to is I saw your statement as trying to define a formula by which one could define people's tastes as "right" or "wrong".

For Phil's use, countering the incorrect assumptions in this thread is not so constructive.

You might note that I am not Phil, but I'm not entirely sure that's true. Those who have taste reasons or emotional commitment won't be any more likely to buy planar products when misconceptions are unveiled. But there are a few people out there whose horizons might be broadened, and might pick up planar products.

 

[Shemeska]

I agree with that. I also think it's just another typical case of elitism. Just like my dad telling me that Bugs Bunny is the only good cartoon, and I'll be telling my kids that G.I. Joe was the only good cartoon, and why kids today will tell their kids that Pokemon was the only good cartoon. Almost all of the people I ever met that have beef with Planescape are old 1st Ed players. Almost all of the people that I meet that started at the end of 2e or 3e are always interested in Planescape when they find out I DM it. Just like hardcore 1e/2e players that have beef with 3e...it's the same old deal.

I take the PS haters criticism with a grain of salt. I own all the PS material and have read almost all of it....I know it's a good setting. Most of the 1e players read what, the 1e Manual of the Planes and maybe skimmed over 1 or 2 PS books? The PS setting is very interesting and very well thought out. It's pure entertaining, and that's why I play D&D.

Very very true. I never played before 3e, but I found the 2e Planescape stuff and fell in love with it. I got my players turned onto it as well, and most of them had never played before 3e either (except Clueless, but she's an exception).

Most of the people who seem to vehemently have a distaste for Planescape are people who grew up playing 1st ed and, for the most part, aren't familiar with PS beyond maybe the first box set. It's probably a combination of lack of exposure and just different playing style. This is of course just a massive generalization on my part, and I might be very wrong in my perceptions here, but it's just something I've noticed.

Oh, and GI Joe and TMNT were the greatest cartoons ever.

 

[Henry]

Who says Modern Day New York is a safe place?
[I don't necessarily like Planescape very much, just saying.]

It's a lot safer than a plane where 5d6 fireballs are erupting every 10 minutes, or a plane where you need a spell to survive for more than 5 rounds. Sigil as I understnand it can be a VERY dangerous place - but it's also a place where if you want to you can hole up for a few days, even craft magic items or do research, and not necessarily expect anyone to bother you.