D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Vaalingrade]

All those feats had plenty of problems on their own.

Like the fact that the start of those feat chains was inevitably 'overcome this penalty we imposed so we could make you take this feat'.

 

[Irlo]

I had honestly forgotten 5e had rules for darkvision you were supposed to pretend to care about instead of just 'you can see in the dark'.

And inherently good climbers due to their Strength.

Ninja-phants.

If I remember properly, dire elephants had a high enough climb modifier to reliably hang upside down from horizontal surfaces.

 

[Vaalingrade]

If I remember properly, dire elephants had a high enough climb modifier to reliably hang upside down from horizontal surfaces.

This is amazing and I disagree with anyone trying to change this. most vehemently.

 

[Maxperson]

All those feats had plenty of problems on their own.

Sure, some. They could certainly be abused, but if you played with players who abided by the social contract, that didn't happen. Power levels could also dip, but the DM could easily adjust the encounter difficulty if something rare and extreme happened.

 

[Maxperson]

Like the fact that the start of those feat chains was inevitably 'overcome this penalty we imposed so we could make you take this feat'.

That's one perspective. Another is that they didn't impose a penalty so that you could take a feat. They took something that was innately very difficult and created a feat so that you could do well with it in the game.

The penalties already existed as a reasonable result of something very difficult to perform. The penalties were not created in order to make a feat that could overcome them.

 

[Vaalingrade]

That's one perspective. Another is that they didn't impose a penalty so that you could take a feat. They took something that was innately very difficult and created a feat so that you could do well with it in the game.

The penalties already existed as a reasonable result of something very difficult to perform. The penalties were not created in order to make a feat that could overcome them.

Whatever the reason, they need to never do that again because it's not reasonable for a game about badass home invaders and not sad nerds who get winded by typing.

 

[Maxperson]

Whatever the reason, they need to never do that again because it's not reasonable for a game about badass home invaders and not sad nerds who get winded by typing.

I think that depends on how many feats characters get. As it stands, I agree with you, because there just aren't enough to go through a chain where the first feat doesn't do a lot. If the game changes to allow more feats, then chains are okay, because you have 1) the extra feats to use, and 2) the choice to engage a chain or just get individual feats. Nothing forces you down a chain.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The penalties would still need to be tossed through a plate glass window into some bullets though.

 

[The Scythian]

Because, from where I'm standing, gnomes have zero presense. No major elements in most settings (Eberron and Krynn being exceptions)...

This isn't true.

In the Mystara setting, the gnomes built the flying city of Serraine, the aircraft used to defend it, and if I remember correctly make up at least the bulk of their pilots (and possibly all of them).

In the Hollow World, a sub-setting of Mystara, two different groups of gnomes were able to build flying islands that crashed into each other to form a single flying island, Oostdok, with each group blaming the other for the disaster. The gnomes of Oostdok also have a fleet of dirigibles.

In the Forgotten Realms, in addition to the normal groups of gnomes that are scattered across the world, there is a large concentration of them on the island nation of Lantan. Although Lantan has never gotten its own supplement, it's not infrequently mentioned as the source of wondrous inventions in other Forgotten Realms materials. (For example, the submarine in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist was crafted in Lantana and it has a crew of Lantanese gnomes.)

I'm not extremely familiar with Spelljammer, but I do have the initial boxed set. I remember that gnomes were one of the relatively few races to have at least one unique craft of their own, and I'd be surprised if they weren't well represented within the setting.

Gnomes are relegated to the background in Greyhawk, but that's more or less true of all the demi-human races in that setting, since Gary Gygax made no secret over the years of wanting human beings to be central in the setting. Even so, svirfneblin feature significantly in the D portion of the epic GDQ series as potential allies.

None of these represent essential components of their settings, but they're not exactly insignificant either.

 

[Faolyn]

I'm not extremely familiar with Spelljammer, but I do have the initial boxed set. I remember that gnomes were one of the relatively few races to have at least one unique craft of their own, and I'd be surprised if they weren't well represented within the setting.

There were apparently five types of gnome ship (although one was more of a lander type of thing for ground exploration). They also created autognomes and the best monster of all time: the giant space hamster. Which they used to run in the giant hamster wheels that powered their most common ships.

Mind you, space gnomes were specifically Krynnish tinker gnomes, so a lot of their stuff acted weirdly. But in space, their stuff actually worked more often than not, since space gnomes didn't have that whole "if it works, the inventor must be insane" thing going on that Krynnish gnomes had.