Why do players like rogues/thieves?

[pemerton]

This WotC blog talks about backstab/sneak attack for D&Dnext, and also mentions that rogues came second to wizards in the class popularity poll.

But more interesting than the blog, I thought, was this post in response:

Wow... talk about looking at the wrong thing.

<snip>

The reason that the theif was 2nd pick, IMHO, is that it is the Go To Class if you wanted a complicated role that wasn't a spellcaster. Before 3E, you had special languages and the Thief Skills that let you do many things that the fighter could not. Under 3E you had SKILLS. The 10+ Skill Points per level was the real reason this class skyrockets to #2, and it's not because of the damage potential. Players who want to roleplay and do things choose the Rogue, because the Rogue is the most equipped of the classes to get the role done.

Do I want to be a diplomat? I choose a Rogue. Do I want to be an Archeoligist? I choose a Rogue. Do I want to be a Wandering Martial Artist, I choose a Rogue, and multiclass Monk. Do I want to be a Dancer? I choose Rogue. There is not a SINGLE CONCEPT that a Rogue can't shoehorn into, and that is why it is the second most popular class. Not because of it's combat potential, but it's role potential.

This seems very plausible to me - that people like the thief/rogue because it is the martial (non-magical) analogue of a spellcaster (and especially a wizard or illusionist).

Other views? And what (if anything) does this suggest about class design for D&Dnext?

 

[Sunseeker]

I have been attracted to rogues/thieves in the past for several reasons.
1: They don't suffer from MAD.
2: They get a LOT of skills which makes them very versatile both in and out of combat.
3: Having sneak-related abilities is almost universally beneficial.
4: Being non-good is much more plausible.

Honestly, there are few things I don't like about rogues. Your quote really says it all, rogues can be almost anything in the game. Even concepts like the hexblade take them into caster-land.

 

[Li Shenron]

I've played a bunch of 3ed Rogues (mostly in PbP) so I can tell you at least the reasons why I like them.

- I like playing a Rogue because exploration/infiltration is my favourite phase of the game.

- I like playing a Rogue because having to improvise by taking advantage of environments and situations is my favourite (or at least one of them) way of playing a combat.

 

[MortalPlague]

The flavor of a rogue is likewise a huge draw. They're usually portrayed as swashbuckling scoundrels, or silent stalkers, and who doesn't want to play a cool archetype like that?

 

[Quickleaf]

I think [MENTION=82425]BobTheNob[/MENTION] nailed the big draw of the rogue: it's the improviser, experimenter, and instigator class. In a way I guess you're right [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] that it's like playing a toolbox wizard...only you're making most of it up as you go rather than working from a pre-memorized playbook.

 

[Dornam]

My wive likes Rogues and always plays a Rogue for 20 years now (we play Pathfinder currently).

I guess the main reason is that she is, at hearth, CN (leaning to CG). She really is a bit like a Kender from Dragonlance. There have been countless times when the other players send her on a mission and the slightest distraction of something interesting, mysterious and shiny would deviate her.

Add to that that at low levels the Rogue with its vast skill set is actually quite useful and its a pure win for her.

 

[haakon1]

Rogue as Combat Engineer

Folks I've seen get really into Rogues (two different players) basically seem to view it as a Combat Engineer -- an expert at "I only told you to blow the bloody doors off" manouvers -- opening doors, opening chests, defuses traps, and of course sneaking around and coup de grace'ing sleeping bad guys, as mentioned in my other reply to you this evening.

Well, maybe somewhere between Combat Engineer and "Oceans 11" or "The Italian Job" stuff -- clever criminal sneakiness and engineering.

The guy who I've seen that's most into his rogue is an engineer in real life, and loves to jerryrig stuff in real life. His character resembles him, only much more bloodthirsty!

Other folks have taken Rogue as a spy and sneakiness class, almost like a scout-sniper (except you need to be at Point Blank range for get the sniper-like Sneak Attack damage bonus, in 3e). One combined it with a Ranger as a character who was indeed a scout by profession (before the Scout class).

 

[Daven]

I think that roleplaying is an important component of choice too.
If you must choose between Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, I am almost sure that most of you would choose Han, even if Luke is more powerful (in combat terms).
For myself I would choice Luke, infact my favourite class is paladin, but we are few on this side of good

 

[BobTheNob]

I think [MENTION=82425]BobTheNob[/MENTION] nailed the big draw of the rogue: it's the improviser, experimenter, and instigator class. In a way I guess you're right [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] that it's like playing a toolbox wizard...only you're making most of it up as you go rather than working from a pre-memorized playbook.

How can I not respond

Totally what I like about the rogue is they are best suited to creative play. If you want a class that is less about dictating what you can do, and one that gives the player the tools to figure out what they can do, that's what I like.

It's funny, because In reference to the actual article, I wanted backstab. Not as combat viable as sneak attack, but combat isn't what I like about the rogue anyway.

 

[Quickleaf]

As for the question of backstabbing or sneak attack...why not let the player choose which they want? A hard to set up huge amount of damage that's hard to draw on...or...a decent amount of damage that's consistently available? Seems like the perfect place to embrace 5e's toolset meme.