D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Paul Farquhar]

Who me one who said that Halflings are Marines who can't do any wrong.

Halflings are better than marines, since not only can they slip through enemy lines undetected, they don't need logistical support, since they are all skilled farmers and gardeners and can produce their own food.

 

[FrozenNorth]

What suggests that rogues have to steal? Halflings are naturally agile and stealthy. The Halfling write-up is perfect for rogues. And rangers for that matter. They love to wander, are stealthy and don't usually live near cities. Both classes would be good for Halflings.

Halflings are great bards, their write-up just doesn’t mention music or dance or art or artistry.
Halflings are great rogues, their write-up just emphasises how community-oriented they are, how they go out of their way to avoid trouble, how they don’t particularly care for treasure, and how their communities are so generous, halflings don’t need to steal anyway.
Halflings are great rangers, their write-up just doesn’t mention nature.

You can love halflings and still recognize that their write-up is pretty lackluster.

Charlaquin posted their own ideas of halflings in another thread (a race that has been enslaved in the past and for whom their image for being friendly and avoiding notice is a defense mechanism), and that description does a much better job of explaining why you would have halfling rogues, halfling bards and halfling rangers.

 

[Maxperson]

So... they have no more retired adventurers than any other place on the map. The same as the Humans, elves and dwarves...

How many of those places are completely safe from attack by monsters? How many times do you go to a town and find that the retired population of adventurers is more than sufficient to handle the nearby threats?

Did you miss the part where it said that they live far away from monsters? So..............almost all of them.

See, the section you are pulling from is explicitly about adventurers, and it starts by telling us that the tendency to wander off is outgrown by "almost all children" the term fancy feet referring to the ones who don't outgrow it. Hmm, that seems to indicate a smaller bit of the population. Then, we get to the text talking about how each village handles it, where we get your line about "some elders" who had Fancy Feet themselves... Which is then followed by:

"Nevertheless, well-meaning villagers might try to dissuade a youngster from leaving the community. Other villages are much more supportive of one of their members who demonstrate the urge to adventure, likely because some of their their elders have gone into the world and returned to tell about it."

Fact are facts. There are about as many Halfling adventurers as there are Human, Dwarf or Elf. They live somewhere. And some of the village elders were adventurers. There are going to be some in the village.

You mean the part I keep referencing? The one where you have these tactics:

Scatterstrike. The halflings run in every direction as if in a panic, but then they regroup and circle back to attack with a concentrated effort.
Turtle Shell. Halflings cluster together and cover each other with shields, washtubs, wheelbarrows, coffer lids, or anything else that can deflect a blow.
Troll Knocker. A few halflings act as bait to lure a troll or other large creature into a clearing where the rest of the group can hurl stones at it from concealment to confuse the monster, persuading it to seek other prey.
Swarming Stickwhackers. Halflings rush an intruder in waves, swatting the enemy with sticks on all sides.
Fiddle and Crack. A halfling fiddler lures the monster into a trap, usually a net or a pit, followed by several burly halflings wielding large sticks and hitting the monster from a safe vantage.

These tactics, listed under the goddess, that mention rocks and sticks? The ones that don't mention any other weapons or tactics? These are the ones that tell us that they are going to use more than rocks and sticks? Where?

It mentions them in common sense and D&D. It's moronic to think that halflings have no access to anything other than sticks or stones. Listing it under a goddess and not under society indicates that those are holy rites to train in tactics, not the only things available to Halflings. Do you have anything other than holy rites?

So, that bolded part is a claim that few things will go wrong. Not "extremely unlikely to flub anything they try to do" and "less likely to have Hail Marys blow up in their faces"

Okay. Less will go wrong, but the luck isn't that fantastic in combat. I don't agree with his assessment there.

 

[Maxperson]

Wow, you sure do love your out of context lines of text.

That particular line comes from the rules on Weapon Proficiency, let's get that first part of the text in here, shall we?

"Your race, class, and feats can grant you proficiency with certain Weapons or categories of Weapons. The two categories are simple and martial. Most people can use Simple Weapons with proficiency. These Weapons include clubs, maces, and other Weapons often found in the hands of commoners."

See that first sentence? The bolded one? It tells us that proficiency comes from 1) race, 2) Class and 3) feats. And we are speaking specifically about PCs, whom all have a class.

Do you impose the penalty on every monster that does not have PC class levels or is of a race that grants proficiency in the PHB? If yes, that's really odd. If no, clearly that proficiency applies to non-PCs as well.

And they are SIMPLE weapons that apply to COMMONERS. Is specifically says commoners, not PCs. Commoners. And not commoners of a race lucky enough to have proficiency like an Elf. Jeebus man.

Every PC class has some simple weapons they are proficient in, this being the "most people" they were refering to. So, halflings as a race don't get simple weapons. They are level 0, so they don't have a class, and they don't have any feats...

So where does this proficiency come from? Are we just going to declare that everyone in the world is proficient with simple weapons? Why then is it a specific type of profiency you need to have? Seems to me that you are once more just making up things that the rules don't support.

Edit: And I just realized it is even more egregious than I first thought. Because you are trying to declare they have proficiency with shortbows. Shortbows are specifically given to Elves as part of their Weapon Training feature. Which tells us that no, not every commoner is proficient with a shortbow.

No company is perfect. It's reasonable to think that they made the mistake of keeping shortbow in there. Most likely, at some point there were going to make shortbow a martial weapon and it got moved. It's crystal clear from both the PHB specifying commoners, which PCs are not and the MM which gives races with no proficiencies listed the use of weapons, that proficiency with simple weapons is for pretty much everyone.

No rebuttal against me using the rules as written. Unsurprising. Continued ignoring of every other point to try and focus on the ones that you think you can disprove. Also unsurprising.

You mean other than the specific rebuttals. But hey, continue to deny reality.

1) Text does not say every single halfling village has elders that were adventurers, which was your claim

It very heavily implies it.

2) Text does not give every single person in the world proficiency with simple weapons

That's yet another Strawman. You just can't help yourself with those, can you?

 

[Maxperson]

Halflings are better than marines, since not only can they slip through enemy lines undetected, they don't need logistical support, since they are all skilled farmers and gardeners and can produce their own food.

I don't agree with that. They are not better than Marines. And skilled farmers and gardeners? Do you expect them to have 6 months to sit in one spot, planting, growing and harvesting food while behind enemy lines?

 

[Maxperson]

Halflings are great bards, their write-up just doesn’t mention music or dance or art or artistry.
Halflings are great rogues, their write-up just emphasises how community-oriented they are, how they go out of their way to avoid trouble, how they don’t particularly care for treasure, and how their communities are so generous, halflings don’t need to steal anyway.
Halflings are great rangers, their write-up just doesn’t mention nature.

It mentions that some do acquire wealth and not all rogues look for trouble. Rogue is just a set of skills. They are not all trouble makers and thieves. Those skills just lend themselves to the type that is often a trouble maker or thief.

And it says this, "Halflings who take up a life of adventure are emboldened by the stories told by their elders- tales of halfling heroes slinking through human cities, plundering dungeons laden with treasure, and being received in the hall of a dwarven king."

And...

"A halfling who has retired after a life of adventuring might own mementos as diverse as a spoon from Sigil's Great Bazaar, a pan pilfered from an elven kitchen in Evermeet, a rake received as a gift from a svirfneblin mushroom tender in the Underdark, and the scale of a white dragon acquired from its lair."

So clearly treasure acquisition and even theft part of the adventuring make-up of Halfings. The picture on page 105 of Mordenakinen's is most likely a rogue getting treasure, and looking pretty pleased to find it.

As for rangers, the PHB says this, " Though some halflings live out their days in remote agricultural communities, others form nomadic bands that travel constantly, lured by the open road and the wide horizon to discover the wonders of new lands and peoples."

Nomads need hunters and trackers to survive. That means rangers as a prime profession for adventuring Halflings that come from those bands.

 

[Hexmage-EN]

As for rangers, the PHB says this, " Though some halflings live out their days in remote agricultural communities, others form nomadic bands
that travel constantly, lured by the open road and the wide horizon to discover the wonders of new lands and peoples."

Seems like a little bit of 4E halfling flavor snuck in, but was ignored in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes (and Halfings and Gnomes).

 

[aco175]

Except gnomes. Was it in 4E gnomes were relegated to "monsters"? Best version of the gnome, ever.

This was one of the best videos from the lead in to 4e. It still gets quoted in my games. "I got a lair, Rawrr."

 

[steeldragons]

The Bountiful Luck feat.

If you have a race of super lucky people who can deter orcs with their luck and share luck, the question is begged whether a halfling neighborhood in a human city grants the city this protection or not.

If halflings have luckand everyone knows, then people will attempt to harness it. Every lord would pay to have these curcious folk to move to their cities and towns. Cheaper that paying a militia. Now if halfling luck can't be cestored on others easily (like it does in my world), then people wont attempt to harness the halfling luck field.

Oh, man... Do you know what you've done, now?

Who here has seen Rick & Morty? Season 2 I think it was...the evil/mad/mass-murdering Rick with the cybernetic "real villain" Morty pulling the strings...in his giant dome of doom, that is covered (and I mean "covered," every foot) on the exterior by Morty's being endlessly pricked to "mask/hide" the Rick with his "Morty stupidity-based cloaking field"...

Yeah. Yep. That's what you've done. One uber-overlord villain who lines his, let's say stronghold's walls, with bound, spread-eagle, halflings against the tiny "iron maiden" like spikes on the walls to induce their wails of misery and extract all of the "good luck" bonuses upon the entire facility. Guards can't miss. No one can scry the interior accurately. Teleportations go tragically awry. Any seige/attackers ends up with the portcullis falling on them even after their infiltrators have locked it up. A moat just spontaneously sinks around the walls as the invaders near and several ranks wash away...

Oh yeah. This is gonna be good...muahahaha.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Oh, man... Do you know what you've done, now?

Who here has seen Rick & Morty? Season 2 I think it was...the evil/mad/mass-murdering Rick with the cybernetic "real villain" Morty pulling the strings...in his giant dome of doom, that is covered (and I mean "covered," every foot) on the exterior by Morty's being endlessly pricked to "mask/hide" the Rick with his "Morty stupidity-based cloaking field"...

Yeah. Yep. That's what you've done. One uber-overlord villain who lines his, let's say stronghold's walls, with bound, spread-eagle, halflings against the tiny "iron maiden" like spikes on the walls to induce their wails of misery and extract all of the "good luck" bonuses upon the entire facility. Guards can't miss. No one can scry the interior accurately. Teleportations go tragically awry. Any seige/attackers ends up with the portcullis falling on them even after their infiltrators have locked it up. A moat just spontaneously sinks around the walls as the invaders near and several ranks wash away...

Oh yeah. This is gonna be good...muahahaha.

well, this got dark all of a sudden.