D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Cap'n Kobold]

That's a big problem because "badass halfling warriors and mages" does describe them in more than one wotc owned setting.

It's not official.

I'm sorry, that is not what everyone has been telling me.

Indeed? Which is why I am explaining it to you again.

First of all, there are no guards. Depending on if I'm listening to @Maxperson or not guards and soldiers only exist in cities. Nothing smaller.

Soldiers, I can understand mostly being stationed in cities and border towns. However I'm pretty sure most settlements would have guards or similar forces. The position of "sheriff" is even called out as something halflings specifically do have isn't it?

Are you really sure that Maxperson actually said exactly what you are claiming Maxperson said?

Oh! And I can't forget, Maxperson also claims that commoners are proficient in all simple weapons. So, if I am to believe him (and I'm always twisting everyone's words so I must be wrong and he must be right) they are proficient in weapons other than sticks and rocks.

Oh! And those aren't how they fight, those are religious ceremonies. Maxperson told me that too.

Did they now?
And you are using those arguments to me because you believe them, and thus they are your opinions too??

I mean, I only really suggested that they would need some weapons and a wall.Having trained in some basic tactical maneuvers is something I actually like. But, that was removing hope from the DnD world and making it a grimdark deathworld where civilization has died its last gasping breath.

Most human villages get by without racial weapon proficiencies and fortifications. Why would halfling villages not?

It's called exaggerating. Saying no one is playing doesn't mean I am saying zero peple are.

To be blunt, saying no one is playing does mean you are saying zero people are.
And we both know that that is a false claim, so you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.

In a thread with as much . . . creative reinterpretation . . . of other's arguments going on as this one, it is much better to stick to staying honest and saying what you actually mean.

 

[Minigiant]

To be blunt, saying no one is playing does mean you are saying zero people are.
And we both know that that is a false claim, so you shouldn't be surprised when someone calls you out on it.

In a thread with as much . . . creative reinterpretation . . . of other's arguments going on as this one, it is much better to stick to staying honest and saying what you actually mean

I figured that obvious hyperbole, especially when I present contradictory info that displays the exaggeration in the same post, would be caught. The outcome I received is the fault of me assuming.

Anyway. Typecasted race is typecasted. Typecasted race has only one stereotype unlike other typecasted races. Since people only tend to break molds already seen, typecasted race is losing popularity. If trends continue and attitudes stay the same, typecasted race might be reduced to a minor player once old guard departs.

 

[Maxperson]

I figured that obvious hyperbole, especially when I present contradictory info that displays the exaggeration in the same post, would be caught. The outcome I received is the fault of me assuming.

Anyway. Typecasted race is typecasted. Typecasted race has only one stereotype unlike other typecasted races. Since people only tend to break molds already seen, typecasted race is losing popularity. If trends continue and attitudes stay the same, typecasted race might be reduced to a minor player once old guard departs.

Again, one of the biggest tropes out there is playing against type. People break molds as a matter of course, not once they begin to lose popularity. It's human nature for people to want to be unique and different. That's why Drizzt and his 10 bazillion clones exist, despite Drow being popular.

 

[Minigiant]

Why would we need to analyse it? Fashions change, and it doesn't matter.

We don't need to anything.
However if you want to preserve some of D&Ds tradition, you might have to analyze it.

Same reason legwarmers aren't popular, and just as significant.

I don't think it's the same issue. I don't think the concept of halflings or elves are old or outdated. Not even that they felt out of fashion. I Ihink it's a phenomenon I have stated many time over the last year.

the D&D fandom grew and diversified. So the community isn't 80% one type of people anymore.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Oh! And since I've devoled into a full on rant for this post, I still never saw a response from @Sabathius42 who accused me of lacking reading comprehension when I addressed his points about how utterly safe Phandolin was, by showing that the history of the town and the adventure setting he said "set the tone for how all small villages should be viewed" was vastly more lethal and fraught with danger than he seemed to remember.

First let me take a moment to point out that when you paraphrased me as saying "set the tone for how all small villages should be viewed" I want to point out that you added the word ALL in there. I generally try to avoid using absolutes, because absolutes make for poor world building. I think its fine to say say that manticores are dangerous monsters, but I would not use the term ALL manticores are dangerous monsters because then I have locked myself out of a plot including a good manticore. Similarly if I see something that says that halflings are content to stay home and get fat, that doesn't mean to me that ALL halflings are content to stay home and get fat. At no point did I say Phandolin is "how all small villages should be viewed" but rather "this is a typical small village as presented by WotC".

So, going back to what I said using Phandolin as a topic. Phandolin is presented to players in the beginners box set. Presumably this box set is aimed at new players...so it represents what WotC at some point decided "These are the parts of D&D that we want to showcase to people that might be unfamiliar with D&D and are playing it for the first time.". They include a "starter village" for the PCs to begin their adventuring career in. This is going to influence how players see "small villages" in D&D, and it's a look that WotC have decided represents "D&D" as a brand.

If you definition of "vastly more lethal and fraught with danger" is a group of bandits under the direction of an evil wizard who kill a few townfolk and burn a few buildings down before all being slaughtered by adventurers then our view of the lethality probably differs.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

We don't need to anything.
However if you want to preserve some of D&Ds tradition, you might have to analyze it.

I don't care about tradition. We play halflings because we like them, not because they are "traditional".

I don't think it's the same issue. I don't think the concept of halflings or elves are old or outdated.

Neither are legwarmers. Nothing wrong with them, they will come back into fashion eventually.

the D&D fandom grew and diversified. So the community isn't 80% one type of people anymore.

I don't think it ever was.

 

[Minigiant]

Again, one of the biggest tropes out there is playing against type. People break molds as a matter of course, not once they begin to lose popularity. It's human nature for people to want to be unique and different. That's why Drizzt and his 10 bazillion clones exist, despite Drow being popular.

Nah.

Humans conform first. They rebel later.

Old Drizzle doesn't count because you couldn't play a straight up drow. You have to break the mold to be a good drow.

People tend to stick with stereotypes or images displayed to them. Halflings have the drawback that their stereotype and images constantly display something that is popular with a group that isn't the vast majority anymore.

 

[Maxperson]

Nah.

Humans conform first. They rebel later.

Old Drizzle doesn't count because you couldn't play a straight up drow. You have to break the mold to be a good drow.

I've only played 2 Drow in my career, both of them were straight up Drow. One in a Menzobaranzan(I know I'm murdering the spelling there) game, and one where I was playing a Drow assassin on the surface and evil PCs were allowed.

People tend to stick with stereotypes or images displayed to them. Halflings have the drawback that their stereotype and images constantly display something that is popular with a group that isn't the vast majority anymore.

This has not been my experience with D&D since I began playing in 1983. People love to play type. People love to play against type. I've never seen anyone refuse to play a race because the lore went against their character concept.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Halflings and gnomes are typecasted, and now these as cliché are old-fashioned, until an author finded a way them to become cool again. I see the potential to be used in a kid-friendly cartoon, or the trope of "badass with cute child face", something like our "sweet but psycho" Tiny Tina from Borderlands videogames. Gnomes need a character with Tirion Lannister's charisma, and halflings somebody as Lyanna Mormot, from Games of Thrones, or Arya Stark. Maybe tomorrow somebody publishes a picture of a female halfling riding a faerie dragon and then lots of players wants a monster-rider halfling PC. Or a new PC working like a living exosuit or simbiont for other, when a DM allows a player to control two PCs if both share a telepathic link.


Halflings could be good fighters, but with some subclasses more optimizied than others.

 

[Minigiant]

I've only played 2 Drow in my career, both of them were straight up Drow. One in a Menzobaranzan(I know I'm murdering the spelling there) game, and one where I was playing a Drow assassin on the surface and evil PCs were allowed

Evil PCs are not the norm.

If you are running an evil game, straight drow is a staple mold.

This has not been my experience with D&D since I began playing in 1983. People love to play type. People love to play against type. I've never seen anyone refuse to play a race because the lore went against their character concept.

That's not my experience.

My experience is that people run stereotypical characters until they've seen most of the stereotypes they are willing to play at their table. The desire to brake the mold usually comes with exposure to the mold.