Why do we need Encounter Powers?

[Kzach]

This is just a bit of a thought-experiment; a means to discuss the potentiality of an idea.

I've been thinking on why it is we need Encounter Powers for characters. It seems like it's something that is fairly unique to 4e. There is also, I find, a huge amount of variance between characters in respect to the amount of Encounter Powers they have; some have lots, some have few, but with at-wills and dailies they tend to be more or less in the same hemisphere.

Encounter powers are also at the root of many game-imbalancing issues. In concert with feats, the ability to combine certain encounter powers every encounter are generally a big part of the problem builds in the game. And this comes from requiring a lot of encounter powers to fill the ever hungry encounter power monster that is 4e.

But why do we need them?

Consider the alternative. A more Essentials-like game where you get more at-wills that modify existing attacks. Introduce more generic at-will modifiers like a shield bash, disarm, trip, etc. that everyone can take as well.

This gives you a huge variety of combat options whilst maintaining a level of balance and helping minimise system bloat.

Retain dailies but make sure they're really worthy of being a daily. In this way, you get to do your really uber-cool things when you need them, but you're not doing silly combos every encounter.

Anyway, like I said, just something to think about.

 

[bganon]

Didn't we already have this?

Not to start edition-warring, but having a lot of optional at-will modifiers hasn't turned out to be a great way of maintaining balance. People figure out the best combo, optimize for it, and spam it. In 4e terms, what you describe is sorta like what high-level psionic characters can do. And we know that can be very broken.

In general, I don't agree that encounter powers are at the root of game-balancing issues. Most broken builds use an encounter power, but most also use feats too, so are feats the root of game-balancing issues? Quite possibly, but IMO the problem is stacking of benefits. Having five different "when you charge" add-ons is the problem. Encounter powers, in general, limit the problem by keeping characters from doing the same thing every round.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

Encounter powers are merely another way of parsing out "temporary increased power". In this, they are another variants on daily powers, consumable magic items or items with charges, and many spell point/fatigue/endurance system.

Basically, there are things you can do pretty much any time you choose, and things you can't. The reasons why you can't do certain things any time you want are legion. This makes them hard to map to game mechanics in a way that is going to be universally pleasing. (That was a bit of understatement, in case it wasn't obvious. )

The advantage of encounter powers over some of the other options is that they scale very well over a series of encounters. The disadvantage is that you can use the complete every encounter, and this can seem somewhat bland to some people--and it also limits what you can do with other options from a balancing perspective.

There are several ways this could be mitigated, in theory. A couple of examples:

1. Give out lots of encounter powers along with lots of at-wills. Make the encounter powers better, but somewhat situational. Set it up so that in a normal fight, you'll practically never use all of your encounter powers. And the ones you do use will vary quite a bit by the situation. Disadvantage--you have to pick all of those powers and remember that you have them.

2. Reverse of your solution--drop dailies, have a few more encounter powers, and make them more powerful. But put in some situational restrictions/reasons to make using them not automatic compared to at-wills. Now, you'll try to use them all in an encounter, but sometimes it won't be worth it. Advantage or disadvantage depending upon how you look at it--becomes very gamist, winning by maneuvering to unlock your encounter powers at the right time.

And with either of those, you can of course replace "situational" hedges with something else. Have resources that are used to power encounter powers, that come and go on a different track. For example, in the second option, make encounter powers cost action points (but make action points more prevelant and something you can get in combat by doing other things besides using encounter power). Alternately, make these powerful encounter powers take two standard actions, which means you'll need an action point to unlock one fast. Disadvantage--now you'll need to add a whole layer to the game for "long actions" and readjust the action economy to compensate.

Going back to everything being a daily and/or a straight resource (aka charged wands, potions) can work, but it does have its own set of issues. If you've got an idea of how to handle "things that you can do, but not any time you want," that has no such issues, I'm all ears.

 

[D'karr]

I very much prefer encounter powers to the essentials alternative. I find it provides multiple options to "building" your character.

In a sense, the encounter powers I choose help define my character's "fighting style". In essentials I find that the character has one style and it's not very modifiable.

Take for example the encounter powers of a single class, the rogue. Depending on your encounter power selection you could be built for hit and run tactics, for controlling tactics, for outrageous damage output, or even a combination of any of those styles. With the essentials thief, you pretty much have one trick, and it feels limiting.

I've played both classes in multiple games and I've come to prefer the rogue, any build, to the Thief.

 

[Umbran]

Need? "Need" is such a strong word.

I think of it this way - even in games that don't have "powers" per se, there's usually some stuff that the character can do over and over again, and some other stuff that, by dint of the construction of the system, they can't do every moment they wish. Frequently, the character can effectively try it once per combat. Other things call for so much setup or expenditure that the character can only effectively pull it off every once in a while (like a day, or an adventure)

In Mage: the Ascension, for example, the character doesn't have powers with strictly set effects and number of uses per day or encounter or whatnot. But, some more potent effects are more difficult, and call for the character to expend a limited resource (Quintessence), and/or have some risk (Paradox) associated with them. The character doesn't throw the expensive effects around willy-nilly. The frequency with which the power gets used is typically inverse to the cost.

In 4e, they simply decided to hard-code the limitation, rather than have it be a fallout of the rules. I don't mind that so much.

 

[S'mon]

I like Encounter powers more than Dailies. With Encounter powers I can have one fight in a day or 8 fights, and it still works out. Dailies let PCs supernova if they know it'll be the only fight, and if they vary between classes that affects class balance - eg in 4e Wizards still have the best Dailies, some close to 'I win' buttons.

 

[Dice4Hire]

I would far rather get rid of dailies over encounters.

Encounters usually have decent effects and most of them take a bit of positioning or the right situation to use best. That makes the player think a bit. Dailies are the same, but are so much more limited some players end up not using them at all.

As for only at-wills and dailies, I would find that incredibly boring. Spam spam spam the same attack over and over again, and optimize that one attack as much as you can too.

I would be happy dropping dailies, but not encounters.

 

[Nemesis Destiny]

I would far rather get rid of dailies over encounters.

Encounters usually have decent effects and most of them take a bit of positioning or the right situation to use best. That makes the player think a bit. Dailies are the same, but are so much more limited some players end up not using them at all.

As for only at-wills and dailies, I would find that incredibly boring. Spam spam spam the same attack over and over again, and optimize that one attack as much as you can too.

I would be happy dropping dailies, but not encounters.

Yeah, I'm pretty much in this camp too.

 

[Hungry Like The Wolf]

I would also prefer to get rid of dailies over encounters but also take it further and get rid of feats as well. Feats have always been a problem in my games and so I made the decision to drop them pretty early on.

I'm just now running a campaign were we dropped dailies and feats. So far so good.

 

[Mummolus]

Encounter powers are a big part of the enjoyment for me - they rarely feel as weak as most at-wills, and they never feel as game-breaking as dailies (even when some are actually worse). There's also no sense of "do I waste this now?" with encounters, or at least not much of one, whereas rationing dailies isn't all that much fun for me.