Why do we need thieves??

[Thomas Shey]

Given the amount of TTRPG's that don't have thieves, I'd say we don't need them.
Even DnD relegated thieves to a sub-class.

I have to note that most games that don't have them, do so because they're already subsumed in either the general system, or other character structures.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I think "skill-based" in this paragraph is a bit of a misnomer. In many (probably most but I don't have any statistics) games, combat and magic are skills. I think you specifically mean infiltration skills (stealth, lockpicking, climbing, swimming, etc.)

No, I mean any skills not directly associated with physical combat, magic or technology (in a utilitarian role similar to magic). So infiltration skills, but also social skills, trade skills, and exploration skills outside of infiltration (like navigation, vehicles, and survival).

 

[dragoner]

I remember Traveller being "not OSR" because it has skills.

 

[Older Beholder]

I have to note that most games that don't have them, do so because they're already subsumed in either the general system, or other character structures.

Yeah, you’re right. The more I looked into the games I was thinking about, things like, Tales from the Loop even has a ‘Troublemaker’

I still wouldn’t say all games need them, but ‘scoundrel’ is a common archetype for hero/anti-heroes, for sure.

 

[Retros_x]

I would argue the need on the basis that, thieves do not have special powers, just skills

Doesn't your logic hold true for all martial classes? So why don't we just have two classes magic user and martial and do the rest with skills?

 

[GrimCo]

I'll take WoD as example of skill system. Combat is skill. Magic is skill. So is stealth, subterfuge, larceny etc. And while you get specific points at character creation for skills and magic/disciplines etc, you get freebee points that are used for everything. Once you start playing you get xp, which is again, used for raising everything, from skills to stats, to magic. Then, you need to choose. Do you wanna be all around mediocre and spread it evenly, or do you wanna specialize. Thief equivalent ( skilled character) is cheapest option, since skills cost less than stats or magic to raise, and while combat is skill, you do need to beef up stats also. So pick and choose.

 

[Jahydin]

So with a great deal of systems, I see a dedicated profession of thief. I would argue the need on the basis that, thieves do not have special powers, just skills. You could play a warrior, and rob people, take advantage of someone you caught off guard, a servant could walk away with important documents, or a locksmith could open locks. Debate me, and if you like thieves, what do you like about them?

Thieves and Fighters are distinct enough to warrant separate classes. Take away the skills and Backstab (the class's defining features) and you still have differences in HD, attack tables, allowable weapons/armor, and the use of magic.

There's a reason why Thieves/Rogues are included in just about every fantasy game (table or video) ever made and why they are all modeled after the D&D concept of: Fighter strong, slow, focused, and tanky; Thief fast, deadly, skillful, and fragile.

That is just surface level. Every edition of the game has it own nuances of why Thieves deserve to be a separate class. For instance, AD&D and demi-human muli-classing. Feel free to be specific and we can dig deeper if needed.

 

[Cadence]

Now I want to go finish watching the seasons of Leverage I never finished...

In any case, does it not need Thieves nearly as much as it needs Rogues (or something equivalent with a better name)?