D&D General why do we not have an arcane half caster?

[Frozen_Heart]

It occurs to me, we should discuss what the least invasive way to add the gish proper to 5e is, which is probably new spells.

If they are Abjuration and evocation, they serve the EK and Bladesinger, but leave out the AT.

I played with a really mean AT who had Mage Slayer and Sentinel, and would stick to casters like deadly glue, and more than once killed a caster by Absorb Elements and a reaction attack from the mage casting a close range “get away spell” or a fireball or whatever while the AT was stealthed right behind them.

• Elemental weapon attack spells and melee defense spells
• Marking mechanic spells
• Offensive teleportation
• Lightning rod style stuff where you call lightning onto a weapon as you strike with it
• Throw weapon and it explodes and then reforms in your hand
• Throw weapon and it flies in a wide arc, hitting extra ppl per spell slot used, then returns to your hand
• Cantrip that primes target for extra elemental damage
• Reaction cantrip that gives offense boost on next attack, or defense+utility
• Optional fighting style that lets you change damage types with cantrips and weapon attacks

Trouble is those spells would then have to be added to wizard too, which doesn't fit wizard at all and starts making them overshadow fighters even more. It's why eldritch knight doesn't have spells like searing smite, ensnaring strike, and elemental weapon, despite the fact that it should have them.

5e has quite a good selection of the right type of spells already. It's just the swordmage replica subclass is explicitly locked out of them.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

I think it depends on what folks are not getting out of the current melee/caster hybrids.

Like what specifically is being solved for that cannot be covered?

For me personally it's spellstrike type abilities. The swordmage theme is already in game with the EK, while the spellstrike type spells are already in game with paladin and ranger. But due to the EK being glued to the wizard list, it can't access any appropriate spells. It's like barbarian without rage.

What some people seem to want is a character who can throw fireballs and then get in and hit people. But this is easily filled by just multiclassing or playing the current gish subclasses.

 

[Mind of tempest]

What some people seem to want is a character who can throw fireballs and then get in and hit people. But this is easily filled by just multiclassing or playing the current gish subclasses.

that is not exactly a bad idea just unambitious, without something fun flavourful and unique it would not stand as a class.

 

[Undrave]

For me personally it's spellstrike type abilities. The swordmage theme is already in game with the EK, while the spellstrike type spells are already in game with paladin and ranger. But due to the EK being glued to the wizard list, it can't access any appropriate spells. It's like barbarian without rage.

What some people seem to want is a character who can throw fireballs and then get in and hit people. But this is easily filled by just multiclassing or playing the current gish subclasses.

Personally, I don't consider a character who swings a sword with one hand and spells with the other as a true 'Gish'. The character should be able to combine both magic and martial prowess in the same action the way a Paladin can smite, or the 4e Swordmage who can teleport to strike with his sword.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Trouble is those spells would then have to be added to wizard too, which doesn't fit wizard at all and starts making them overshadow fighters even more. It's why eldritch knight doesn't have spells like searing smite, ensnaring strike, and elemental weapon, despite the fact that it should have them.

5e has quite a good selection of the right type of spells already. It's just the swordmage replica subclass is explicitly locked out of them.

I completely disagree with the last part. 5e has almost no swordmage spells, and the two I can think of that are most swordmagey are Ranger spells. (Ensaring Strike and Steel Wind Strike)

As for the Wizard part, yeah, that’s fine. The Wizard can’t overshadow the fighter in 5e, and have some good melee spells won’t cause them to. They’ll be great for War Wizards and Bladesingers, so what? The EK will still be much better at staying in melee.

The ideal solution is a new class, but this post is about a least invasive fix.

 

[Stormonu]

I’ve already put in my two bits multiple times, but I’ll say again that I won’t be happy until it is it’s own class, not a subclass of another class. Not giving this Eldritch warrior it’s own class is akin to arguing that Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian should just be a subclass of the Fighter.

As a full-blown class, it would open it up to its own set of subclasses that allow you to flavor different approaches and abilities, and establish a full and unique branch of spells.

Also, I have a slight issue with “blade” or “sword” in the generic class name, as that implies precluding assigning magical attributes and flavored abilities or even weapon selection. For example, having the class named Swordmage creates some obtuseness if you later wanted to have, say a Runeaxe subclass or a Maceblaster subclass.

 

[Mind of tempest]

I’ve already put in my two bits multiple times, but I’ll say again that I won’t be happy until it is it’s own class, not a subclass of another class. Not giving this Eldritch warrior it’s own class is akin to arguing that Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian should just be a subclass of the Fighter.

As a full-blown class, it would open it up to its own set of subclasses that allow you to flavor different approaches and abilities, and establish a full and unique branch of spells.

Also, I have a slight issue with “blade” or “sword” in the generic class name, as that implies precluding assigning magical attributes and flavored abilities or even weapon selection. For example, having the class named Swordmage creates some obtuseness if you later wanted to have, say a Runeaxe subclass or a Maceblaster subclass.

a decent one-word name is a must.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

a decent one-word name is a must.

Every one-word name I’ve ever seen for the concept has been terrible, except maybe Gish, and the general populace has no clue what on earth that word means.

Generally, they sound like names for deep cut 3.5 off-brand pseudo wizards. Like, hey here’s the Arcanomancerist. They’re a warrior class! Can’t ya tell by the name!?

 

[Undrave]

I’ve already put in my two bits multiple times, but I’ll say again that I won’t be happy until it is it’s own class, not a subclass of another class. Not giving this Eldritch warrior it’s own class is akin to arguing that Paladin, Ranger and Barbarian should just be a subclass of the Fighter.

As a full-blown class, it would open it up to its own set of subclasses that allow you to flavor different approaches and abilities, and establish a full and unique branch of spells.

Also, I have a slight issue with “blade” or “sword” in the generic class name, as that implies precluding assigning magical attributes and flavored abilities or even weapon selection. For example, having the class named Swordmage creates some obtuseness if you later wanted to have, say a Runeaxe subclass or a Maceblaster subclass.

a decent one-word name is a must.

The name is really the biggest sticking point. If you can find a SOLID name it'll probably stick. Like it or not, 'Warlord' has quickly ingrained itself, for exemple, as a short hand for "Mundane Dude who leads other" and you can see debated on if the Battlemaster is Warlord enough or how to approximate a Warlord with 5e classes and so forth.

Also, a potential half-caster should be able to fold in the Arcane Archer.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The name is really the biggest sticking point. If you can find a SOLID name it'll probably stick. Like it or not, 'Warlord' has quickly ingrained itself, for exemple, as a short hand for "Dude who leads other" and you can see debated on if the Battlemaster is Warlord enough or how to approximate a Warlord with 5e classes and so forth.

Also, a potential half-caster should be able to fold in the Arcane Archer.

IMO Swordmage does that just fine. It’s a good name.