Why do you buy Dragon?

Mercule said:
I remember in the 1980s/1E days always loving Dragon. I really probably should have had a subscription. It seemed like there was always something cool. Things that stick out are the pain system, more "realistic" height/weight tables, tips on the psychology of the various races, and entire issues devoted to building cities or religions.

I remember most of those and enjoyed a lot of them. The problem with nostalgic reminiscing is that "it's been done". Those articles were cool for their time, but the game was newer then, and we were much younger. We looked at things differently. I know that I, for one, have no need for a "realistic" height/weight table for my games these days. And, it doesn't really make fun reading.

I loved Dragon back in the 80s when I first got into gaming, but I think that people tend to look at it through rose-colored glasses. Sure, there was a lot of good stuff. But, there was a lot of bad (or useless) stuff, too. Just like today.

Mercule said:
Since coming "back to the fold" with 3E, I've found Dragon very hit-or-miss. The themed issues like Swashbucklers and Gladiators were stellar.

Absolutely! Two of my favorites in the past few years.

Mercule said:
And some of the early "Class Acts" where they were still showing great ways to do multiclass builds to suit a concept really inspired me on how to use the ruleset and make it my own.

Agreed. I think that the new "Class Acts" are really interesting, too.

Mercule said:
There has been a lot of stuff that just doesn't seem to have much use, though. I don't need any more PrCs, spells, feats,

The Trifecta that seems to be the bane of Dragon readers. I think that the publishers and editors have heard you all, loud and clear. PrCs have been limited over the past few months to only (I think) one a month. I'm a little behind on my reading but I have all the issues (subscriber since Issue 90!) but my recollection is that they have limited PrCs to only one per issue, give or take. Is that really too much?

I actually don't mind the PrCs. When done well, they give me ideas for adding organizations to my campaign or fit into existing organizations that I already have. Sure, some of them are just collections of random abilities, but I think those are becoming less prevalent these days.

Mercule said:
or monsters -- I've got way too many already.

Usually people want more monsters! I personally don't care (I don't use a lot of monsters, and trying to fit new ones into my campaign is difficult) but my understanding was that a lot of people wanted more.

Mercule said:
Pulling them out of novels or movies would be a cool way of illustrating how to add a flavor to your game, but pulling them out of video games seems the height of banality.

Why?

Mercule said:
What am I missing? How do you use Dragon? What are the best bits? Am I just out of the "target demographic" for Dragon, now?

I enjoy reading Dragon. I'll admit I don't read it cover to cover, but I suspect few people do.

Here's what I like:

1) Once a month, I get fresh material to read, for a low out-of-pocket cost. A lot of it covers genres that I otherwise would not pay for (like planar stuff, since my main campaign doesn't really involve planar travel). I think this is a good thing because it helps me to stretch my imagination and make me more creative, even if it is not directly applicable.

I'll give you a "real world" example. I work in advertising in a department that involves a lot of numbers, target markets, percentages, that kind of thing. I am not "the guy who makes the ads"[/b]. I could just do what I do and let it go at that and become a number cruncher. But, I don't want to be that kind of person. So, I stretch myself creatively outside of work. Does playing D&D, writing (novels & gaming material), and illustrating in my free time really affect my advertising work? Yes, it does. I find that it actually makes me more creative when I am at work, so I come up with new ideas, new ways to reach the target market, new sizes for the ads, etc. By using my mind in a "different" way, it's kind of like exercising it a little, and it makes me better at my regular job.

I see a lot of complaints from people who say things such as, "I don't read the Forgotten Realms articles because I don't play in the FR" or "I don't read Silicon Sorcery because I don't play video games."

My response to them is, "Stop being so literal!". Look at the material and see how you can adapt it to your own game rather than using it in the way that (you think) it's presented. You'll find a wealth of material out there just waiting to be used in your game. That's what I mean by "stretching your imagination".

2) I always find at least one thing that I think would be cool to add to my game, or to add to one of the characters I play. Whether I add that thing or not in the immediate future is beside the point to me - it inspired me to think of something that I hadn't thought of before, or to look at a rule or class or what-have-you in a different way. That's worth the price to me.

Here's another somewhat off-topic comparison, but it always resonates with me. Ever see "John Carpenter's Vampires"? I thought the movie sucked. I was very disappointed with it. And yet, I was able to pull one little nugget out of it (the idea of the Catholic Church sponsoring a team of mercenary Vampire hunters). Maybe not an original idea to you, but I hadn't thought of that before. I haven't exactly done anything with that idea yet, but it's there, in the back of my mind, waiting to be used.

I sometimes look at Dragon (and all of my other gaming purchases, as well) that way. If I think about it, there's always at least one tidbit that sparks my imagination and makes me think of the game differently.

Now, you might say, "Yes, but I can get that kind of inspiration for free from ENWorld!". Perhaps that's true, but that's less an argument about the "usefulness" of Dragon and more an argument about purchasing gaming products in general versus just getting free inspiration from the internet.

3) I enjoy the Sage Advice column to see what other issues/problems people are having. Yes, you can get some of that from the Rules Forum here, but that doesn't diminish its value in Dragon.

Nothing else on that - I just enjoy reading it.

***

I look at Dragon as part-entertainment and part-toolkit. That's how I approach all of my gaming purchases. I can be entertained by something in Dragon, even if I don't necessarily intend on using it in my games.

To give you an example of an article I enjoyed recently, there was a one-page article in "Class Acts" about different models for the Paladin class. The premise of the article was that not every paladin needs to be the archetype of a knight in shining armor. The author went on to describe to different types of paladins, such as a kind of world-weary Western "gunslinger" type (armed with crossbows).

I've already broken all of the stereotypes of the classes in my game, so the article won't necessarily help me with my games. But, I liked the concept very much because I've always felt that people get too caught up in a preconceived notion of what a class is and then make very generic statements about it as though there is only one way to play that class. After reading that article, I thought to be myself, "I hope that everyone reads this article and then begin to expand their definitions of what a class really is."

Maybe, as a vetaran, that particular article wouldn't help you, but I bet there's something in there that will strike a chord with you. For $6, I don't think you can find a better value in gaming (except Dungeon, of course).
 

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Samothdm said:
Agreed. I think that the new "Class Acts" are really interesting, too.
Oh, I love the Class Acts! Always neat ideas there.

Samothdm said:
I actually don't mind the PrCs. When done well, they give me ideas for adding organizations to my campaign or fit into existing organizations that I already have. Sure, some of them are just collections of random abilities, but I think those are becoming less prevalent these days.
Agreed. I read some of them and are like, "Oh, this'd be perfect for..."

Samothdm said:
Here's what I like:

1) Once a month, I get fresh material to read, for a low out-of-pocket cost. A lot of it covers genres that I otherwise would not pay for (like planar stuff, since my main campaign doesn't really involve planar travel). I think this is a good thing because it helps me to stretch my imagination and make me more creative, even if it is not directly applicable.

...

"Stop being so literal!". Look at the material and see how you can adapt it to your own game rather than using it in the way that (you think) it's presented. You'll find a wealth of material out there just waiting to be used in your game. That's what I mean by "stretching your imagination".

2) I always find at least one thing that I think would be cool to add to my game, or to add to one of the characters I play. Whether I add that thing or not in the immediate future is beside the point to me - it inspired me to think of something that I hadn't thought of before, or to look at a rule or class or what-have-you in a different way. That's worth the price to me.
...

3) I enjoy the Sage Advice column to see what other issues/problems people are having. Yes, you can get some of that from the Rules Forum here, but that doesn't diminish its value in Dragon.

Nothing else on that - I just enjoy reading it.
...

For $6, I don't think you can find a better value in gaming (except Dungeon, of course).
All good points, although wordy. ;) Just wanted them to be emphasized.
 
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Jdvn1 said:
All good points, although wordy. ;) Just wanted them to be emphasized.

Thanks. And, yeah, with posts I tend to get wordy because I don't edit myself. Trust me, my "real" writing is much more concise. :)
 

Samothdm said:
Thanks. And, yeah, with posts I tend to get wordy because I don't edit myself. Trust me, my "real" writing is much more concise. :)
:lol:
I had guessed that. If you made an ad that long, it probably wouldn't get very far, eh? Also, not enough pictures.
 

I don't buy Dragon, I buy Dungeon.

For the most part, the articles in Dragon have not met my needs as a DM since the early to mid- 80s. The non-fiction approaches are re-treads and re-hashes of old themes (for the most part); the fiction is iffy; the class approach has ZERO interest for me and the PrCs...

I have hundreds of PrCs already that I don't need. Getting new ones I don't need is of no value.

Magic Items are always cool. Bazarre of the Bizarre or whatever it is you would like to call it is on interest and value to me. Does it justify me buying Dungeon on its own though?

Nope.

While I believe Eric is going to bring the direction of Dragon on a new bearing, I must be candid that I am not sure what that should be.

I am sure that I would enjoy more gaming news and reviews of products other than WotC's. The explanations offered in the past suggest this is unlikely to return. The problem of print publications being a news source is difficult when faced with online competition.

*shrug*

I am left with a product that I find it hard to justify buying. Dungeon - I will buy faithfully every month without even bothering to even look at the cover to see what's in it. I KNOW for a fact that I want it and will find it useful.

Maybe I'd be happier if they just put out two issues of Dungeon a month :p
 

Mercule said:
I remember in the 1980s/1E days always loving Dragon. I really probably should have had a subscription. It seemed like there was always something cool. Things that stick out are the pain system, more "realistic" height/weight tables, tips on the psychology of the various races, and entire issues devoted to building cities or religions.

Since coming "back to the fold" with 3E, I've found Dragon very hit-or-miss.

I found Dragon to become very hit or miss after about issue ~103 or so back in the 1980's.

For Dragon these days it's a weak magazine, I just check out the stack of old Dragons (250 and up) and pick the ones I want. No reason to subscribe just pick up the best issues of what is offered.

Dungeon is worth subscribing too IMO.
 

I buy dragon. I think about ten issues ago was a good peak with lots of stuff I can use. Not so much right now, but I am waiting for it to gather steam again.

I gotta say, I am not a big fan of the "class pages". At first they were fairly valuable, but it seems like most of the useful content has been exhausted.

Also not a big fan of flaws, and wish they would stop supporting them. It's one of the least worthwhile mechanics to come forth from UA.

But there are a lot of things I use. Mostly feature articles and silicon sorcery.
 

Why do I buy Dragon? I think it was some time last year that the Living Greyhawk information was moving from Dungeon to Dragon ( I could be wrong about that, but I think that's why I did it). Since I was interested in keeping up with the LG stuff I figured it was a good time to subscribe and check it out for a year.

I enjoy Dungeon much more than Dragon since I believe you can never have enough adventures to choose from! And now Dungeon has broadened its offerings a bit beyond just the adventures to include other stuff to help DMs.

NTZ
 

Samothdm said:
I see a lot of complaints from people who say things such as, "I don't read the Forgotten Realms articles because I don't play in the FR" or "I don't read Silicon Sorcery because I don't play video games."

My response to them is, "Stop being so literal!". Look at the material and see how you can adapt it to your own game rather than using it in the way that (you think) it's presented. You'll find a wealth of material out there just waiting to be used in your game. That's what I mean by "stretching your imagination".
Amen!

Not to generalize but most fans are like that, even to the point of prefering one label over others. Regardless of the d20 System label, if it's not "D&D" (or "FR" or "Eberron"), then it's not worth buying
 

I am actually letting my sub lapse. #330 will be my last issue. I've just not gotten much use out of it, and really don't feel like I've gotten my money's worth. (Spare me the rant about Dragon vs. $40 hardcovers please, I haven't got what I hoped for out of most of them either.)

With Mona taking the helm, I will continue to watch it for the next 5 or 6 months. If I end up buying 2 or 3 of them, I'll probably re-up. But for now, it just doesn't make much sense.

I have 6 issues remaining of dungeon, as I really liked the changes after Mona took over. If it continues to be good, I'll re-up.
 

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