Why Do You Hate An RPG System?

[overgeeked]

One shots maybe, though I can't remember a time of players making new characters and playing after a tpk, usually that's the game. If it happens right out the gate, I would sign off there too I think.

Huh. To each their own, of course. I’d wonder what happened and ask the Referee if there was a mismatch of expectations (like playing Call of Cthulhu like D&D). Then I’d want to do what I could to beat whatever challenge the Referee put in my way. Learn from my mistakes and try again. Play smarter and all that. But then I like challenges in games. I don’t see challenges as an excuse to give up and quit. If we have a four-hour slot of gaming planned, by the Great Old Ones we’ve got four hours of gaming to play.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Huh. To each their own, of course. I’d wonder what happened and ask the Referee if there was a mismatch of expectations (like playing Call of Cthulhu like D&D). Then I’d want to do what I could to beat whatever challenge the Referee put in my way. Learn from my mistakes and try again. Play smarter and all that. But then I like challenges in games. I don’t see challenges as an excuse to give up and quit. If we have a four-hour slot of gaming planned, by the Great Old Ones we’ve got four hours of gaming to play.

I'd go as far to suggest that the percentage of people who go into RPGs wanting challenges drops off progressively the more hardcore it is. There's plenty of people who consider losing a character by itself a major game failure state.

 

[dragoner]

Huh. To each their own, of course. I’d wonder what happened and ask the Referee if there was a mismatch of expectations (like playing Call of Cthulhu like D&D). Then I’d want to do what I could to beat whatever challenge the Referee put in my way. Learn from my mistakes and try again. Play smarter and all that. But then I like challenges in games. I don’t see challenges as an excuse to give up and quit. If we have a four-hour slot of gaming planned, by the Great Old Ones we’ve got four hours of gaming to play.

Or it could be a waste of time, the GM can just throw the unbeatable thing against you again. I mean, survive until you die is space invaders, that's a challenge. I want more though, esp if I am making a CoC character, or even 5e.

 

[dragoner]

I'd go as far to suggest that the percentage of people who go into RPGs wanting challenges drops off progressively the more hardcore it is. There's plenty of people who consider losing a character by itself a major game failure state.

It definitely drops off in proportion to how long it takes to make a character, and expected survival rate.

 

[overgeeked]

I'd go as far to suggest that the percentage of people who go into RPGs wanting challenges drops off progressively the more hardcore it is. There's plenty of people who consider losing a character by itself a major game failure state.

I'd suggest those people find a game that doesn't include violence and the implied risk of character death, then. D&D and Call of Cthulhu are clearly not games they'd enjoy.

 

[overgeeked]

Or it could be a waste of time, the GM can just throw the unbeatable thing against you again.

I'd say there's your problem. You assume that because you didn't easily beat it the first time it is therefore "unbeatable". That's obviously not an assumption you should make. Or there's the real possibility you're trying to punch Cthulhu and win...which is a clear mismatch of expectations. If your character does dumb stuff and your character dies, it's no one's fault but yours.

I mean, survive until you die is space invaders, that's a challenge. I want more though, esp if I am making a CoC character, or even 5e.

If you don't want to risk a character death, don't play a game where character death is a possibility. I mean, we are talking about the premiere horror RPG and the premiere fantasy action-adventure RPG. Character death is quite possible in both, but especially in Call of Cthulhu. If you play a horror game expecting easy wins and no character death...well, that's a clear mismatch of expectations. You're clearly playing the wrong game.

 

[dragoner]

I'd say there's your problem. You assume that because you didn't easily beat it the first time it is therefore "unbeatable". That's obviously not an assumption you should make. Or there's the real possibility you're trying to punch Cthulhu and win...which is a clear mismatch of expectations. If your character does dumb stuff and your character dies, it's no one's fault but yours.

If you don't want to risk a character death, don't play a game where character death is a possibility. I mean, we are talking about the premiere horror RPG and the premiere fantasy action-adventure RPG. Character death is quite possible in both, but especially in Call of Cthulhu. If you play a horror game expecting easy wins and no character death...well, that's a clear mismatch of expectations. You're clearly playing the wrong game.

I know what is unbeatable, and if a DM throws an adult Red Dragon at my 1st level character, that's on them, not me, and is exactly why I wouldn't try again. There's no challenge there, nothing.

 

[hawkeyefan]

You're clearly playing the wrong game.

Yikes.

 

[overgeeked]

I know what is unbeatable, and if a DM throws an adult Red Dragon at my 1st level character, that's on them, not me, and is exactly why I wouldn't try again. There's no challenge there, nothing.

Not every encounter has to be a fight. There's no rule that say that. Why would you assume every single creature you see must be a valid target to kill? And a level-appropriate target at that. That's a bizarre assumption to make. Yes, I'm aware it's a fairly common assumption amongst D&D players, but that doesn't make it any less bizarre. Just because you see a "monster" doesn't mean you have to fight it.

If you're standing in the starting-village square and an adult red dragon shows up in front of your 1st-level character...what you do is up to you. Do you fight? Do you talk? Do you run? If you choose to fight, that's 100% your fault. If the DM forces a fight, that's 100% their fault. The options are not "fight and win" or "give up and quit". There's a literal world of options between those two. Negotiation. Talking. Seeing if the dragon wants to offer a quest. See if it makes a demand. Have a conversation. Most DM's aren't going to throw an adult red dragon at a 1st-level party expecting a fight. They'd likely assume the players were smart enough to not charge in guns blazing. If they players are dumb enough to charge...that's 100% on them. If there's a rumor of an adult red dragon lair a few miles away and your 1st-level party decides that sounds like a smashing idea for a first adventure...sorry, that's 100% your fault.

 

[dragoner]

Not every encounter has to be a fight. There's no rule that say that. Why would you assume every single creature you see must be a valid target to kill? And a level-appropriate target at that. That's a bizarre assumption to make. Yes, I'm aware it's a fairly common assumption amongst D&D players, but that doesn't make it any less bizarre. Just because you see a "monster" doesn't mean you have to fight it.

If you're standing in the starting-village square and an adult red dragon shows up in front of your 1st-level character...what you do is up to you. Do you fight? Do you talk? Do you run? If you choose to fight, that's 100% your fault. If the DM forces a fight, that's 100% their fault. The options are not "fight and win" or "give up and quit". There's a literal world of options between those two. Negotiation. Talking. Seeing if the dragon wants to offer a quest. See if it makes a demand. Have a conversation. Most DM's aren't going to throw an adult red dragon at a 1st-level party expecting a fight. They'd likely assume the players were smart enough to not charge in guns blazing. If they players are dumb enough to charge...that's 100% on them. If there's a rumor of an adult red dragon lair a few miles away and your 1st-level party decides that sounds like a smashing idea for a first adventure...sorry, that's 100% your fault.

Or the DM just sends it in to kill everyone, because that's what it does, otherwise they are pulling punches ... curating the encounter. I have had it happen, and not just Morrow Project, lost mine 5e game I was killed by arrows at a wagon because I failed a perception check, and couldn't react except get hit. I totally bailed on that game after that.