Why Do You Hate An RPG System?

[The Crimson Binome]

That seems to be either a poorly qualified or overly-restrictive statement, depending.

Whose choices are you talking about? Player or character?

Role-playing is the process by which a player makes decisions from the perspective of their character. Is that under dispute? Is someone using some other definition of role-playing, which is at odds with that? Or is there some other, commonly-accepted term for the process by which a player makes in-character decisions?

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Aldarc]

Role-playing is the process by which a player makes decisions from the perspective of their character. Is that under dispute? Is someone using some other definition of role-playing, which is at odds with that? Or is there some other, commonly-accepted term for the process by which a player makes in-character decisions?

Part of the problem is that you are assuming that the character's decisions and player's decisions will always be aligned, but that is not always the case even if one assumes that a player knows best how their character would act. It does not mean that they do so perfectly, all the time, or without the impulses of outside knowledge about the fact that they are playing a game and that the player may have play goals that are at odds with the character's in-game goals.

If you were actually doing it because it's what you think the character would do, then it wouldn't matter whether or not you got a fate point for it. If you were actually role-playing, then you would care about the item because the character wants it.

This is a false dichotomy, Saelorn.

 

[Umbran]

It doesn't mean that you have to get all violent. Or mean.

If you aren't getting mean... is the word "hate" appropriate?

I mean, I know we are in a world in which we have to accept literally everyone's usage of words, even when that usage is literally the opposite of the nominal meaning of the word. But still, I'll be a stick in the mud, and suggest that just maybe we should push back on it. "Dislike such that I will not play it," is not the same as "dislike such that I denigrate people who do play it", and maybe we shouldn't use the same word for both.

And, I think it reasonable to say that the former is fine, and the latter is toxic behavior we should not, collectively, be tolerating.

But, if you wanna use the same word for behavior that's okay, and behavior that isn't... well, have fun keeping your discussion cogent.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[atanakar]

I don't HATE any system per se.

1) I shy away from systems that offer too many options. I don't want to read a thesis on how a RPG can emulate reality. I'm sure GURPS is awesome but when no one has exprience with the system it is daunting to create a character. It took us two hours to create a half-troll detective with minor arcane abilities... I never had the courage to help build the four other characters. The same character took 30 minutes with Modern AGE by Green Ronin.

2) Illusion of choice is also one of my pet peeves. By that I mean that if there is only one optimal build for each archetype why offer options that will never be selected. This leads to discontent by players who are not good at optimizing. I'm looking at you D&D 3e, 4e, D20 Modern, etc. 5e paths are fine for me.

3) Systems that have a very elaborate character background creation systems are not my cup of tea. I prefer the background to remain a bit vague so the player and I can integrate things on-the-go. The INFINITY 2d20 rpg by Modiphius suffers from this. The Coriolis rpg by Free League, has some background choices but only for the larger questions. It is a bit more than I am used to but it works very well with the setting so we had fun using it.

4) Systems that use dice with symbols as with FFG's Genesys. I'm don't want to pay for them. We played a Star Wars FFG game and we didn't enjoy all the dice interpretation we had to do.

 

[Nagol]

If you aren't getting mean... is the word "hate" appropriate?

I mean, I know we are in a world in which we have to accept literally everyone's usage of words, even when that usage is literally the opposite of the nominal meaning of the word. But still, I'll be a stick in the mud, and suggest that just maybe we should push back on it. "Dislike such that I will not play it," is not the same as "dislike such that I denigrate people who do play it", and maybe we shouldn't use the same word for both.

And, I think it reasonable to say that the former is fine, and the latter is toxic behavior we should not, collectively, be tolerating.

But, if you wanna use the same word for behavior that's okay, and behavior that isn't... well, have fun keeping your discussion cogent.

Yes, it is a visceral feeling. One that need not be acted upon, but is there nonetheless. I hate lots of things: "wet" foods like soups and stews, certain singers like Kate Bush that literally cause me pain on high notes, and yes, some books full of words that are the antithesis of my perspective of my hobby.

Here"s Oxford's definition: HATE: [transitive, intransitive] to dislike somebody/something very much

Yep, looks right. I hate those things.

 

[lordabdul]

But there are things that make me say a hard "NO" to a game

While I think a lot of people (including me) tend to agree with your list, I have a suspicion that if we were to specifically name some games and accuse them of such things, a lot of differences of opinions might suddenly surface (especially since I can't really come up with any game that does any of the things you say... I can come up with some adventures that do a few of those things, though)

 

[Nagol]

While I think a lot of people (including me) tend to agree with your list, I have a suspicion that if we were to specifically name some games and accuse them of such things, a lot of differences of opinions might suddenly surface (especially since I can't really come up with any game that does any of the things you say... I can come up with some adventures that do a few of those things, though)

Kult first edition has the tag line "Death is only the beginning" on the cover. That intrigued me so I picked it up to see how the game handled the transition through death and how they balanced/changed things for those who died and those who hadn't. I read the book through and then went back and checked it again. There were rules for getting killed.. That's it. There was no after-life in the game for PCs. I was put out.

 

[lordabdul]

Death is only the beginning

Haha yes, I can see how that's totally misleading