Why do you think warforged = robots?

[Dice4Hire]

The reason I do not like Warforged, or Eberron for that matter, is the elements of steam-punk it brings to the game. If I want steam punk, I will play deadlands where it is well done, and believable. It just does not make sense in D&D,

Also the usual, "They were made, but no one knows how to do it anymore" hogwash is annoying. I can understand with artifacts thousands of years old, but not with warforged which were created during the most recent war. It is a cop-out.

Really on the same lines as the DM saying that NPCs can do things the PCs cannot.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The reason I do not like Warforged, or Eberron for that matter, is the elements of steam-punk it brings to the game. If I want steam punk, I will play deadlands where it is well done, and believable. It just does not make sense in D&D,

There's not one ounce of steampunk in Eberron. Some elements of "magic as technology," yes, but A) it's not as prevalent as some of the art makes it out to be, and B) there's a substantial gulf between it and steampunk.

Also the usual, "They were made, but no one knows how to do it anymore" hogwash is annoying. I can understand with artifacts thousands of years old, but not with warforged which were created during the most recent war. It is a cop-out.

That would suck. Fortunately, nowhere does it say that. The creation forges still exist; they're just not supposed to be used. Lots of people know very well how to create new warforged.

 

[Hamburger Mary]

Also the usual, "They were made, but no one knows how to do it anymore" hogwash is annoying... It is a cop-out.

It's also not the case in Eberron. People know exactly how to make warforged. People are, in fact, still making warforged (Merrix d'Cannith, the Lord of Blades). Creating warforged requires the use of certain artifact-level items which were impounded or destroyed at the end of the war. How to make them isn't a mystery.

There are mysteries about them, such as the question of souls, why they can feel pain or have emotions, and things like that. As Hellcow said earlier, it's not like I, Robot where their brains are built. But that's because the techniques used ARE in fact based on techniques that are thousands of years old, which have been partially reverse-engineered by modern artificers.

People know exactly how to make the tools used to create warforged. It's simply against the law to do so, and it's the case that they don't understand exactly how those tools work - because they never did. They know how to make the warforged. They haven't forgotten anything about the warforged. There are just certain things about them that they never knew. Which is one of the things that ties to the fact that we're dealing with magic instead of technology; it's easier to have your robot mysteriously have a soul when you're messing around with ancient magic that to accidentally program one into a circuit board (with apologies to Short Circuit).

Disliking Eberron? That's fine. The flavor isn't for everyone. There is chocolate in the peanut butter. But it's posts like this that disappoint me, because you're jumping to the conclusion that it's annoying hogwash when it at least appears that you simply don't understand the setting. Saying "It's been two years and we forgot how to make warforged already" would be utterly moronic, and violates one of the basic principles of the setting - the idea that magic is a science and that sciences evolve over time. Saying "We developed the a weapon during a time of war and have now banned the continued development of that weapon during this time of peace" is a perfectly logical thing with obvious precedent in the real world.

 

[Hellcow]

There's not one ounce of steampunk in Eberron. Some elements of "magic as technology," yes, but A) it's not as prevalent as some of the art makes it out to be, and B) there's a substantial gulf between it and steampunk.

Yes... in fact, one of the paragraphs of the original 1-page description called out the fact that it's NOT steampunk. For me personally, one of the central themes of steampunk is the presence of both magic AND technology (something also explored in Shadowrun). The point of Eberron is that you have magic being developed in the same way that we developed other sciences, and as such being used to accomplish many tasks that we use technology for. Magic is used for transportation, medicine, war, communication. But there's no steam, no gunpowder; it's actually LOWER tech than some D&D settings, when it comes to actual technology. The principle (which many disagree with) is "Why would you develop cannons when you have fireball - why not just find an easier and more efficient way to produce a fireball, the thing you're already familiar with?"

This is an aspect of the setting that even some of the writers don't always get, but it is an important distinction to me. If you want true steampunk, you've got Iron Kingdoms, Castle Falkenstein, and others. Eberron isn't trying to be steampunk; it's a setting where arcane magic has become a part of civilization.

 

[Dice4Hire]

There's not one ounce of steampunk in Eberron. Some elements of "magic as technology," yes, but A) it's not as prevalent as some of the art makes it out to be, and B) there's a substantial gulf between it and steampunk.

Then our definitions must not be the same. But that is ok, from what I have seen of Ebberron, steampunk is what I saw, and was touted as a defining part of the setting. Yes, it is magic based, but that makes no difference to me.

 

[AllisterH]

I thought warforged were closer to TREANTs than to the typical iron Golem?

Am I misremembering what I read about warforged being basically plants with metal coverings?

 

[Umbran]

For me personally, one of the central themes of steampunk is the presence of both magic AND technology (something also explored in Shadowrun).

What you like, of course, is what you like. And there's certainly steampunk that does include fantasy elements. I think, though, that magic is not at all central to Steampunk in general. HG Wells, Jules Verne, mark Twain, and Mary Shelley are the very roots of steampunk, and they don't have a whole lot of supernatural stuff going on.

 

[Klaus]

I thought warforged were closer to TREANTs than to the typical iron Golem?

Am I misremembering what I read about warforged being basically plants with metal coverings?

Indeed, warforgeds have wooden fibers for muscles, and have parts made of stone, and *some* metal plates over them (which may or may not have adamantine, silver, cold iron or mithril mixed in). And all of these materials are created out of thin air with something akin to the fabricate spell, so the bodies aren't assembled and then animated. They're created wholecloth from magic.

 

[Dire Bare]

Well, random person on the Internet, my PhD professor in American Lit (which is what The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is) said explicitly there was no evidence that L. Frank Baum had any desire to write a parable about the gold and silver standards, despite generations of grad students looking for it.

Your professor is allowed whatever conspiracy theories he likes about children's literature, though.

Oh yeah! Well my professor could kick your professor's ass!

 

[Hellcow]

And there's certainly steampunk that does include fantasy elements. I think, though, that magic is not at all central to Steampunk in general.

Certainly. I was refering to what I've generally seen as Steampunk GAMES - Iron Kingdoms, Castle Falkenstein, Arcanum, etc. Obviously Space 1888 falls into this and AFAIK has no magic. However, the point to me is that people who call EBERRON "Steampunk" are typically seeing it in the magic-and-technology camp... they aren't assuming that it has no magic whatsoever. Whereas in fact, Eberron has no TECHNOLOGY - just magic that fills the same role.