D&D General Why Do You Think Wizards Are Boring?

[Tonguez]

That's the one, thanks! It actually has a lot of potential uses; 2000 gallons of soapy water for an hour can cause a lot of chaos, especially if that can be spread out over an area as a thin layer, mess with sight lines, remove stench coatings from monsters, etc. Good vs aboleth slime!

the bubbles cant be spread out by the spell itself, but I suppose it could be paired with shape water for that purpose.

luring troglodytes into water is probably a bigger task than just adding soap but it certainly works well against aboleth slime

 

[deganawida]

That's the one, thanks! It actually has a lot of potential uses; 2000 gallons of soapy water for an hour can cause a lot of chaos, especially if that can be spread out over an area as a thin layer, mess with sight lines, remove stench coatings from monsters, etc. Good vs aboleth slime!

See, that’s where wizards are cool to me. Not the “pew pew die” powers that so many love, but the off the wall spells that require creativity and leave the other players what in the world just happened, as they either die laughing that such a crazy gambit paid off, or their jaws drop at how a plan so audacious could succeed magnificently. Now I need to make my first post in Unpopular Opinions for a few days….

 

[EzekielRaiden]

See, that’s where wizards are cool to me. Not the “pew pew die” powers that so many love, but the off the wall spells that require creativity and leave the other players what in the world just happened, as they either die laughing that such a crazy gambit paid off, or their jaws drop at how a plan so audacious could succeed magnificently. Now I need to make my first post in Unpopular Opinions for a few days….

And it is good to have such things. Truly.

The problem is, the...shall we say, "wonder density" is all off.

Such events are once-in-a-blue-moon. They have to be. If you make it so using the same spell makes a huge impact three times in twice as many weeks, it very quickly loses its charm and becomes "ah, yeah, you did the overpowered spell thing again." So either the events need to be rare, or they need to be wildly different which quickly outpaces the ability of anyone at the table to improvise that hard. Such expectations are unsustainable in the long run and unsatisfying in the short run.

That doesn't mean we should try to remove such things--but we should recognize that they are a really, really cool sometimes food, not the bread and butter of class design.

Imagine getting to have one ultra-expensive, five-star meal per month, completely for free. The rest of the time, you are not allowed to eat anything except perfectly nutritious, gloopy, tasteless gruel. Having that one AMAZING meal a month isn't going to satisfy most folks. Even if it instead became a ~3.333% chance that any given day would be a 5-star-meal day (which is, very approximately, about 1 every month), I don't think most folks would take that deal.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

See, that’s where wizards are cool to me. Not the “pew pew die” powers that so many love, but the off the wall spells that require creativity and leave the other players what in the world just happened, as they either die laughing that such a crazy gambit paid off, or their jaws drop at how a plan so audacious could succeed magnificently. Now I need to make my first post in Unpopular Opinions for a few days….

I think this may be why I don't think wizards are boring. I have been playing a gnome illusionist since the Obama presidency (maybe the Bush presidency; I have to check) and he has zero of the standard spells. Everything he does is something that requires creativity. (Obviously, this is highly DM dependent.)

I think everyone at the table would be gravely disappointed if he turned into a fireball dispenser.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think this may be why I don't think wizards are boring. I have been playing a gnome illusionist since the Obama presidency (maybe the Bush presidency; I have to check) and he has zero of the standard spells. Everything he does is something that requires creativity. (Obviously, this is highly DM dependent.)

I think everyone at the table would be gravely disappointed if he turned into a fireball dispenser.

Last time I saw a Gnome illusionist was Castles and Crusades roughly a decade ago, before that 2002, before that once in 2E.

Poor gnomes.

 

[deganawida]

Last time I saw a Gnome illusionist was Castles and Crusades roughly a decade ago, before that 2002, before that once in 2E.

Poor gnomes.

C&C has a fantastic illusionist. That said, though, and knowing at least one person will disagree with my placement at #1, but their bard is the best bard, as he actually is a warrior-poet. I rank the C&C bard as #1 of all their classes (which are all fantastic).

 

[Zardnaar]

C&C has a fantastic illusionist. That said, though, and knowing at least one person will disagree with my placement at #1, but their bard is the best bard, as he actually is a warrior-poet. I rank the C&C bard as #1 of all their classes (which are all fantastic).

Haven't seen one in action they seem like a charismatic inspiring fighter.

 

[deganawida]

Haven't seen one in action they seem like a charismatic inspiring fighter.

I think they also best represent the stereotypical peasant who becomes a hero. Good in a fight, but not the best (that’s the fighter, who is the only class to start with +1 to attack). Able to inspire and change people, but not like a knight.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

C&C has a fantastic illusionist. That said, though, and knowing at least one person will disagree with my placement at #1, but their bard is the best bard, as he actually is a warrior-poet. I rank the C&C bard as #1 of all their classes (which are all fantastic).

Co-signed. C&C has done a great job of capturing a vision of all the classes that matches the late 1970s/early 1980s AD&D vibe they're going for, while still doing something new in every case. (Spell-less rangers and paladins, illusionists who can actually do a shadow magic version of healing when they need to.)

 

[Zardnaar]

I think they also best represent the stereotypical peasant who becomes a hero. Good in a fight, but not the best (that’s the fighter, who is the only class to start with +1 to attack). Able to inspire and change people, but not like a knight.

Iirc d10 hit dice?