D&D General Why Do You Think Wizards Are Boring?

[deganawida]

they could just have one class with wizard, sorcerer, and warlock as subclasses. They could call it, oh, I dunno, “Magic-User.”

 

[Scribe]

I mean its been hit on by quite a few. Wizards are boring because they are a stack of spells, and thats it, once they are gone, they are what exactly?

A cantrip? Thats not entertaining.

 

[Neonchameleon]

they could just have one class with wizard, sorcerer, and warlock as subclasses. They could call it, oh, I dunno, “Magic-User.”

If they wanted to make sorcerers and warlicks much mire boring, yes they could. But sorcerers and warlocks already have good subclasses.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Totally depends on what and how magic is described. @EzekielRaiden talks about his conceptualization of it. Depending on campaign or theme, I go between magic being part of the natural world and something that can be tapped into with no problem or it is something dark and dangerous that has a drawback. You want the power it brings, then you deal with the consequences. But again, its all theme, and all about how the table wants to approach it. DCC and similar take the latter approach - power corrupts, and magical power can turn you into a monster.

As someone who plays Wizards, and my last being a F2/W14 over a 2.5 year 5e campaign, I overall found the mechanics to be boring, the spells to be fairly uninteresting but super impactful, the "resource management" to be nonexistent, and "resource tracking" of abilities, background abilities, species abilities, feats, and the kitchen sink to be onerous. Oh, and the ability to just gain two new spells on level up or research spells for paltry amount of coin was yawn inducing. Its why I also stopped playing 5e and won't be looking back.

define what would help mechanically then?

 

[CreamCloud0]

the core of the issue as i see it is that wizards are just a list of spells, and 90% of their other abilities all either loop back around to being about spells in some way, provide a small numerical bonus to something or aren't actually as good as real spells anyway, BUT wizard's access to spells is so well rounded that it became painfully generic with little distinguishing features of their own to distinguish one wizard from another on top of the fact that most any given wizard subclass can learn all the same spells of any other wizard subclass.

sorcerer and warlock work because they have tighter themes that allow for developing focused niche subclasses with abilities that actually feel and are unique to specific subclasses, my divine soul sorcerer isn't going to feel like your draconic sorcerer or their storm sorcerer, in addition to extra mechanics like sorcery points/metamagic and pact boons/invocations/pact slots short rest recovery that distinguish them even further beyond purely their spells.

would i be able to determine your subclass just by watching your wizard in play and the spells you used? (bladesinger notably excluded) That's the problem with the wizard.

 

[Zardnaar]

the core of the issue as i see it is that wizards are just a list of spells, and 90% of their other abilities all either loop back around to being about spells in some way, provide a small numerical bonus to something or aren't actually as good as real spells anyway, BUT wizard's access to spells is so well rounded that it became painfully generic with little distinguishing features of their own to distinguish one wizard from another on top of the fact that most any given wizard subclass can learn all the same spells of any other wizard subclass.

sorcerer and warlock work because they have tighter themes that allow for developing focused niche subclasses with abilities that actually feel and are unique to specific subclasses, my divine soul sorcerer isn't going to feel like your draconic sorcerer or their storm sorcerer, in addition to extra mechanics like sorcery points/metamagic and pact boons/invocations/pact slots short rest recovery that distinguish them even further beyond purely their spells.

would i be able to determine your subclass just by watching your wizard in play and the spells you used? (bladesinger notably excluded) That's the problem with the wizard.

Bladesingers one of the few with flavor.

Lost in the pond of primary casters as well. Versatility is also over rated or take to long.

No one cares about level 15. What about 1-7?

Weak saves of which one is barely targeted and the other one isn't a primary requisite often tertiary at best.

Sorcerer con score is a great base for any of the other charisma classes which have 3 primary spellcasters to play with and a secondary class. 2 of them are some of the best classes, Sorcerer isn't a slouch either.

Artifice generally pathetic compared with Paladin and doesn't Play nice with an MC wizard generally.

I have to seen a wizard created since 2019, one before that 2015 maybe. The one or two players that appeals to are generally picking Bards, Sorcerers, Druids or Clerics.

Invokers cute but meh compared to a light cleric especially early on. Level 10 us to long to wait for some abilities Artificer and Fighter have similar issue.

 

[Neonchameleon]

define what would help mechanically then?

Giving them some restrictions and limitations to work with and around other than slightly fewer hp and a lower AC than others.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

define what would help mechanically then?

Three possible approaches (not necessarily compatible):

1. Break the class up into smaller, more focused classes that can actually have mechanics.
2. Cull the Wizard spell list heavily, but substantially increase access to your specialty school.
3. Remove Arcane Recovery, add other class features which specifically relate to research generally, spell research specifically, and actually designing brand-new spells.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Giving them some restrictions and limitations to work with and around other than slightly fewer hp and a lower AC than others.

i know this suggestion is probably a huge hit but considering bladesingers are apparently one of, if not the most powerful wizard subclass i'm not too worried: the targeting range of all bladesinger spells greater than 10ft are halved(point of origin targeting, this doesn't mean lightning bolt gets reduced from 100ft to 50), a bladesinger wants to be a melee wizard? well then, you get to be a melee wizard, no sniping 150ft fireballs across the battlefield for you sonny-boy

 

[Zardnaar]

i know this suggestion is probably a huge hit but considering bladesingers are apparently one of, if not the most powerful wizard subclass i'm not too worried: the targeting range of all bladesinger spells greater than 10ft are halved(point of origin targeting, this doesn't mean lightning bolt gets reduced from 100ft to 50), a bladesinger wants to be a melee wizard? well then, you get to be a melee wizard, no sniping 150ft fireballs across the battlefield for you sonny-boy

I've only seen one in action wasn't to impressed kind of a bad fighter. Good nova potential. New spells since then though, class has been tweaked.

Apparently if you play it like a traditional wizard and skip the pretending to fight part it's better.