Why do YOU want a new edition

[MoogleEmpMog]

My question is why?

It is the question that drives us.

Why a new edition?

Because 3e looks like a game that was designed prior to most of the ten busiest years of RPG innovation ever. Because 3e is especially embarrassing in comparison to closely related and streamlined systems like Star Wars Saga Edition. Because 3e already covered everything remotely related to the core of the game and has been reluctant to branch to far for fear of losing the core. Because 3e at the outset was married to a narrow conception of fantasy that doesn't interest me.

Why no gnomes?

Space reasons, I suppose.

I'm not actually in favor of dropping gnomes, but then, at first blush, I'm not in favor of making race have the major mechanical impact they're talking about it having. The kind of source material I want to emulate is either humans-only or nearly so (sword and sorcery) or treats character race as one of a variety of possible excuses for whatever powers a character may have (JRPG and anime fantasy).

Why simplification(IME they seem very real for the type of risk some of these actions require IRL) Why....

Because what the actions require IRL has exactly zero relation to how much fun they are to game, or how well they simulate fantasy media.

Because the game is presently painfully slow in prep and at the table.

Because games like Mutants and Masterminds and Star Wars Saga Edition demonstrate that D&D 3e's slowness is a function of design flaws, not a necessity for a system of its versatility.

Whats your reason for pining for a new edition of the game we all know and love .

Well, I'm a casual D&D fan. I'm interested in a new edition because a) I can write and sell stuff that was already covered in the previous one and b) I'm hoping the new edition will be closer to what I want.

Also, is the want for a new edition greater than the fear of a dud.

I have no fear of a dud.

If it's what I want, I'll play and run it. If it's successful, I'll write for it.

If it's not what I want, I'll play and run something else. If it's not successful, I'll write for 3.5 and benefit from reduced competition from Wizards.

Just curious to see opinions and hoping to avoid thread crappers.

Kupo.

EDIT: Also, do you feel the new edition will address the reason you want a new edition?

Well... yes and no.

On the plus side, I do think it will be streamlined, and I do think under Mike Mearls and co. it will be a much better game. I firmly believe the actual play experience, the tactics game within the game, will be immensely upgraded from 3e.

My main concern is on the simulation side - I want down and dirty (but over-the-top and pulpy) sword and sorcery and/or high-flying anime and Final Fantasy technofantasy; what I've seen so far doesn't look like it caters to either of those styles. It seems more tied to standard high fantasy and to PC RPG influences, neither of which I have any interest in.

At the end of the day, if 4e doesn't serve, I'll continue to play a Star Wars Saga Edition-based rulesset for Tactics/RPG play and games like FATE/Spirit of the Century for other styles.

 

[Li Shenron]

My question is why?
Why a new edition?
Why simplification(IME they seem very real for the type of risk some of these actions require IRL) Why....

I don't need a new edition, but I could get 3 benefits from it:

1. Make me prepare adventures and NPCs in less time
2. Make us run combats fasters*
3. Allow me to run higher than levels 13-14


*I guess for most people the real reason for this is to have more combats per evening. For me it would be more a chance to spend more time for out-of-combat stuff.

Changing mechanics is not a needed thing. Keeping D&D the same game it has always been is essential. I can play another RPG tho... but if 4e is not D&D (meaning it has killed more than 2-3 sacred cows), then I see no reason to prefer D&D 4e over a completely different RPG.

 

[pogre]

The 3.5 stat block is reason enough. I enjoy 3.5 and look forward to playing it for the next year. However, my group will take a hard look at 4E.

 

[Bront]

Why 4E?

Multi-classing spellcasters (or spell casters with other interests) shouldn't have to have serious flaws.

There are rules that just don't quite sit right.

Fighters need a shot in the arm.

Race should matter a bit more beyond limiting your multiclassing.

Games balanced per encounter vs per day tend to have more interesting encounters more often.

Because 3.0/3.5 was a good start but could be taken further.

Because Polymorph and shape changing rules are a mess.

Because monsters and PCs are different.

Because I'd rather have a new edition than see D&D die off.

Wanting a 4th Edition doesn't mean that 3.0/3.5 is a bad system. It just has flaws. I expect 4th Edition to have entirely new flaws that likely won't be apparent initialy, much like 3E, but it will hopefully fix many of the 3.0/3.5 flaws. It also doesn't mean you have to switch if you don't want to.

 

[Shadeydm]

Less DM prep time is far and away the best thing I have read about 4E, I only hope it can live up to this claim.

 

[Ian O'Rourke]

Good question.

From my point of view it's simply because I appreciate, and would enjoy the broad concept of Dungeons and Dragons. Role-playing, exciting encounters, characters with cool abilities, epic fights and even levelling up. I could enjoy that, I could even enjoy running that.

In this day and age I'm perfectly capable of enjoying the above, as well as enjoying games like Spirit of the Century, Primetime Adventures..whatever.

The problem is 3E is just too damned crunchy and too damned anal. I appreciate D&D will always have a certain level of crunch, but that doesn't mean it has to be so picky and heavy handed.

So I want a new edition so that D&D can become a game I'll play, so that the general concept behind D&D, adventurous kicking ass (either physically or socially, etc) and role-playing I can finally pick-up enjoy.

So, it basically comes down to: I've always had a soft spot for the game, but 3E is way to heavy for me, hoping for something different. Though I'm not expecting something incredibly simple either, just something easier to handle.

 

[WhatGravitas]

-> Because the newer base classes (ToM, ToB: Bo9S, HoH) are fluff- AND mechanics-wise much more interesting than the base classes, I hope that 4E incorporates all these new insights into class design.

-> Because D&D is very prep-heavy and littered with little modifiers, making DMing hard, I hope 4E can alleviate that.

-> Because magic overshadows so much - without magic, you're... losing - half of your best abilities are tied to buffs or magic items, I hope 4E can make the game less magic-reliant.

Cheers, LT.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I'm not sure whether or not 4e will address my problems with 3.x in ways that I'll love, but I'm very happy that the problems I see with the game do seem to be the same problems the designers have with it.

1) High level combat is cumbersome, slow, and all too often boring and anticlimatic. It shouldn't take me 20 minutes to run a complete round when DMing above level 15 or so, but it always does.

2) I dislike any rule subsystem that forces a book look-up. Turning Undead and Grappling are good examples. AoO's are really nice in theory, and while I no longer have to look them up, teaching new players the ins and outs of them is a nightmare, from my experience.

3) The current combat system, I believe, actively discourages combat roleplaying, something I'm hoping a maneuver based system will actually facilitate. ("I swing 4 times" isn't very interesting or dramatic. I don't want Dragonball Z style zaniness, but I do want my heroic, dramatic action.)

4) I really really really dislike the fact that D&D parties in the current system so often fall into patterns of "8 hours of sleep, 15 minutes of adventuring!" Rinse, repeat, bore. While resource conservation is interesting and SHOULD be part of the game, wizards and clerics should be able to do something useful once they're out of the goodies, even if that something is on the weak side.

A lot to quote, but such good points

1. Certainly. It is a pain, so many options, so much to remember ( and I ALWAYS forget something) I hate it, I really do.

2. Yeah, there are 4-5 common actions I always have to look up, and another 4-5 that are not worth the effort of remembering. Not fun.

3. Yes yes yes. Full attacks have wrecked combat in 3.x. One reason I really liked Bo9S, as it kept fighters moving from place to place much more. Skirmish is another. But two guys standing toe to toe and beating each other is not interesting at all. Even worse is 20-30 guys

4. I don't play this way and never have, Added to this, my group are not big for buffs either. We find it boring.

 

[Wanderer20]

Why should anyone want a new edition with 3.5?

And another question: why a new edition while the changes to the system are so few they could be integrated in 3.5?

My personal answer is: as long as 3.5 would support all the changes they want to make, no new edition is necessary, unless you state that Wotc needs desperately our money at all costs.

 

[crazy_cat]

Because 3E/3.5, while a good game, still has some flaws that need fixing.

Because I find that 3.5 is a bit too numbers-heavy for my taste.

Because stat blocks should not occupy 1/3-1/2 the length of an adventure.

Because I'd like alternatives to the magic item-reliance of 3.5.

Because I like the notion of giving all classes interesting choices to make, like wizards have.

Because I like the notion of a more solid social interaction system for those times when RP isn't sufficient.

Because anything that speeds up play, and makes things simpler for the DM, is probably a good thing.

And finally, because of all we've heard about 4E so far, I like almost all of it, and the few aspects I don't like are fairly minor.

What he said.

Particularly the stuff about speeding up play, less emphasis on the numbers, and less focus and reliance on magic items.