Why do YOU want a new edition

[Kae'Yoss]

Mousy has the gist of it cornered in a dark alley and is already showing his vampirodent teeth.

I like more or less everything I have read about 4e. It sounds like it could be as big a step up from 3e as 3e was from 2e.

Why should anyone want a new edition with 3.5?

And another question: why a new edition while the changes to the system are so few they could be integrated in 3.5?

My personal answer is: as long as 3.5 would support all the changes they want to make, no new edition is necessary, unless you state that Wotc needs desperately our money at all costs.

How could you put those changes into 3.5? For example, the 3e fighter's quite boring. How could they fix it? Will you bring your PHB to the store and they slap stickers on the pages where the fighter is described?

 

[BlueBlackRed]

Because combats to challenge 6 level 10 PC's should not take 2 1/2 hours to play out.

Because your game should not slam to a grinding halt when somone wants to move their figure on the map deciding the best way to avoid AoO's.

Because playing a melee class should not require a bachelor's degree in math.

Because keeping track of a dozen different types of bonuses is hard enough, and then someone dispels some of them.

Because creating challenging NPC's should take an hour each.

Because turning undead still is not easy to deal with.

Because players of high level casters spend up to an hour picking spells.

Because gnomes have never been played by me since 1E as DM or player. I've only seen one played once in 3E, as an NPC.

I guess that about covers it.

 

[Wanderer20]

Mousy has the gist of it cornered in a dark alley and is already showing his vampirodent teeth.

I like more or less everything I have read about 4e. It sounds like it could be as big a step up from 3e as 3e was from 2e.



How could you put those changes into 3.5? For example, the 3e fighter's quite boring. How could they fix it? Will you bring your PHB to the store and they slap stickers on the pages where the fighter is described?

Have you read Unarthed Arcana? There you will find countless ways to re-balance and diversify classes, spell system, races, everything, all in 250 pages.

If you want to apply sets of different rules you keep the PHB as a source, and use it as the new rules intend

 

[JVisgaitis]

I could literally write tons of these. My major points:

• Fighters were totally lame in previous editions. They finally get something interesting to do.
• Combat becomes more then I swing and swing again.
• Simplification of all of the rules makes my job as a DM and a publisher easier.
• Changing the balance of resource management to per encounter fixes all of the "I'm out of spells/rage so let's rest garbage."
• No dead levels means your character is always getting something cool to do.
• Talent trees for different classes means that no two characters will be the same.
• Re-jiggering the way magic items works means that my character is no longer carrying around 30 magic items.
• Assigning a monster a level that is equal to my character just makes sense.
• Making the math the same across all levels means I don't need to reboot my campaign once we hit high level.
• If I'm a 20th-level Wizard I get 20th level spells? Its stuff like this that makes as much sense as having to roll an opponent's Armor Class to hit them.
• The party is defined into 4 distinct roles and there are 2 class types that fill each role equally. Huzzah! There's an alternative healer to the Cleric.
• Rules like Grapple, Magic Item Creation, and Polymorph are just plain broken.
• Creating a character at 1st-level becomes an exercise in deciding my full concept and every Feat I plan to take all the way to level 20.
• Making a character for a game and realizing I didn't do the above because I wasn't sure and having to re-roll another character just to fit with the concept I decided to go with.
• Being able to play a Fighter/Wizard that isn't subpar in both.
• The thought of having a electronic edition of every book I buy that I can have with me wherever I go and is easily searchable brings tears to my eyes.
• Software support out of the box for a game that is numbers heavy just makes sense.
• Playing an Elf now gives me more then a +2 Dex and a -2 Con at 1st-level.
• Playing D&D with friends that are spread across the country anytime I want is awesome (now get going with the Mac support!).
• I'm bored with 3.5 and new products just don't excite me anymore.
• WotC product release schedule is brilliant. New PHB, MM, and DMG every year? Brilliant. Ditto a new Campaign Setting every year. Now I have something to look forward to.
• Anything that fosters conversations about D&D is a good thing.

 

[Gundark]

I dont hate it for any of those reasons except I dont feel I ve gotten my investments worth yet for no.2. .

And that's fair. Play 3.5 until you feel you need a switch. No one is forcing you to play 4e. Enjoy your books and the investment you made.

 

[Moggthegob]

I could literally write tons of these. My major points:

• Fighters were totally lame in previous editions. They finally get something interesting to do.
• Combat becomes more then I swing and swing again.
• No dead levels means your character is always getting something cool to do.
• Talent trees for different classes means that no two characters will be the same.
• Re-jiggering the way magic items works means that my character is no longer carrying around 30 magic items.
• Assigning a monster a level that is equal to my character just makes sense.
• Making the math the same across all levels means I don't need to reboot my campaign once we hit high level.
• If I'm a 20th-level Wizard I get 20th level spells? Its stuff like this that makes as much sense as having to roll an opponent's Armor Class to hit them.
• The party is defined into 4 distinct roles and there are 2 class types that fill each role equally. Huzzah! There's an alternative healer to the Cleric.
• Rules like Grapple, Magic Item Creation, and Polymorph are just plain broken.
• Creating a character at 1st-level becomes an exercise in deciding my full concept and every Feat I plan to take all the way to level 20.
• Making a character for a game and realizing I didn't do the above because I wasn't sure and having to re-roll another character just to fit with the concept I decided to go with.
• Being able to play a Fighter/Wizard that isn't subpar in both.
• The thought of having a electronic edition of every book I buy that I can have with me wherever I go and is easily searchable brings tears to my eyes.
• Software support out of the box for a game that is numbers heavy just makes sense.
• Playing an Elf now gives me more then a +2 Dex and a -2 Con at 1st-level.
• Playing D&D with friends that are spread across the country anytime I want is awesome (now get going with the Mac support!).
• I'm bored with 3.5 and new products just don't excite me anymore.
• WotC product release schedule is brilliant. New PHB, MM, and DMG every year? Brilliant. Ditto a new Campaign Setting every year. Now I have something to look forward to.
• Anything that fosters conversations about D&D is a good thing.

Ok so you hate game balance. To me adding more feats to the fighter is not going to make him more interesting to play. It will make him deal more insane amounts of damage on each and every one of his 4 swings per round. Dead levels arent a problem for me because the games not about levelling and your stats. Its about the story and what you do from there merely determines how you get from A to B.

Careful what oyu wish for. Having 20 levels of spells means having to prepare 20 levels worh of spells that may OMFG slow gameplay.

Monsters do have levels. Cr is a nice rough guideline of that honestly the no system will be no better no worse im sure.

There is afighter wiard un-subpar,its called a duskblade, we have alternate versions of clerics called Favored Souls and healers. Frankly most still prefer cleric as they should

Nothing is broken unless you let it be and honestly I dont feel the new edition is going to address magic item creation. Magic items are still what the games about, especially not grappling and polymorph.

You dont plan your characters already? Weird most people i know do but honestly thats jsut preference.

So you WANT to buy a new PHB DMG and MM ev ery year. my are you a glutton for pain.

 

[Visceris]

I do not want 4e. What I want is continued support for 3.5e, the best DnD system. Period.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Ok so you hate game balance.

I have no idea how you get that from what he said. Nothing he said he wants in any way prevents game balance, as long as the system is designed with those factors in mind from the get-go.

So you WANT to buy a new PHB DMG and MM ev ery year. my are you a glutton for pain.

If they have cool options and are worth the price, yes. If not, then no. Just like any other supplement.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Ok so you hate game balance. To me adding more feats to the fighter is not going to make him more interesting to play. It will make him deal more insane amounts of damage on each and every one of his 4 swings per round. Dead levels arent a problem for me because the games not about levelling and your stats. Its about the story and what you do from there merely determines how you get from A to B.

I hate game balance? How you can possibly think I said anything remotely close to that in my post is insane. What's your definition of game balance?

Careful what oyu wish for. Having 20 levels of spells means having to prepare 20 levels worh of spells that may OMFG slow gameplay.

How do you figure that out? f you take the current spell list and spread it out over 30 levels does that "magically" make spells slow gameplay?

Monsters do have levels. Cr is a nice rough guideline of that honestly the no system will be no better no worse im sure.

I don't want an arbitrary guideline. If I want to Polymorph I should be able to Polymorph into a monster equal to my level. If you like trying to figure out something that's vague, have at it.

There is afighter wiard un-subpar,its called a duskblade, we have alternate versions of clerics called Favored Souls and healers. Frankly most still prefer cleric as they should

I don't want band aids that come in future products. I want the core system to handle all of that.

Nothing is broken unless you let it be and honestly I dont feel the new edition is going to address magic item creation. Magic items are still what the games about, especially not grappling and polymorph.

Sure, that's the mark of a good DM. I don't have problems in my game and I don't let anything be broken. The fact that I have to remove something from the system to make it work is a bother. Maybe you like wasting Feats on Craft Arms and Armor and enjoy wasting experience points so you can create a +1 sword. I don't. That's something my character should be able to do because that's what he does. I shouldn't be penalized for being a Wizard.

You dont plan your characters already? Weird most people i know do but honestly thats jsut preference.

Majority of them I do. Sometimes I get in a quick game and roll something up quick or sometimes I decide to change my mind. You seem to like rigidity and seem to like being a rat in a maze and punished for not finding the cheese. I want to be presented with options and if I decide to take my character in a new direction I can do so without the need to redo the whole thing.

So you WANT to buy a new PHB DMG and MM ev ery year. my are you a glutton for pain.

There's this cool thing called choice. If this year's PHB focuses on Psionics and Psionic characters, I'm not obligated to buy it if I don't like psionics. Same goes for any other book they put out.

My entire post is about choice. The ability to be presented with a lot of options for my characters, for my game, and for combat and everything else. If I choose not to use them? Fine. My choice, not the guys sitting in Renton.

 

[Moggthegob]

Clearly you have never seen some of the fighters I have. I just dont see how adding feats will help anything unless the feat becomes ,as a unit, a much less powerful thing.

for Polymorph I honestly dont expect it to get better. The wording for those spells was caused by someone still working on the product now so itll be different but still will not quite work the way we need it to.

So how do you feel Crafting should work. The rules balance out the fact that you are getting permanent magic from your own soul. It works out. So you level a little slower, you have all this cool stuff.

Maybe I do like law and rigidity, but you can have avaried concept now, and you will, i garuntee still have characters weaker than others basedon fear choice. Not all feats can be equal and if you want to deal the most damage you can im sure there will still be one feat path that if you focus on it will have you being a more powerful character than if you spread your feats out. That just how it works.Its the price of generalization.