D&D General Why does D&D still have 16th to 20th level?

[Greg K]

I actually think D&D should end around level 10. The only reason it doesn't it because Gygax made the mistake of designing level 9 spells for wizards, deliberately as a way to give antagonists spells the PCs couldn't use.

7th to 9th
edit: I see @Yora beat me to it.

 

[d24454_modern]

Am I the only one who doesn't want a 'feeling of advancement' as a goal?

For me, I want to enjoy the level I'm at, to roleplay there without concern for the next level up, without expectations or hopes for the next level up.

I yam what I yam and that's all that I yam... Until I break through to the next level and evolve into something greater.

That's what I want, screw the fiddly advancements and feeling of progression, make every level a life changing event for the character.

In 3rd edition, a character's overall power is said to double every other level. That's decent, but doubling every level is even better (if that translates to half the total levels that's fine.)

Do not build classes where someone is stuck waiting for the next level, make them amazing classes where any level could be a satisfying place to spend an entire campaign if a GM decides they only want to run within one level.

You don’t have to wait. Just play what you have at the moment and then what you have later.

 

[MGibster]

Am I the only one who doesn't want a 'feeling of advancement' as a goal?

It's nice to gain a new ability once in a while, but, overall, I don't really care all that much about advancement either.

Do not build classes where someone is stuck waiting for the next level, make them amazing classes where any level could be a satisfying place to spend an entire campaign if a GM decides they only want to run within one level.

I think World of Warcraft came to the same conclusion a few years ago. They changed their leveling system to make it so every level really mattered (you got a new ability or someting). There are a lot of empty levels in D&D where you just get some more hit points but nothing substantial.

 

[James Gasik]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you want to talk about a high level adventure...

Yeah, you read that level band right, lol.

 

[Malmuria]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but you want to talk about a high level adventure...

View attachment 254082
Yeah, you read that level band right, lol.

The Throne of Bloodstone – Vintage RPG

www.vintagerpg.com

 

[Luceilia]

You don’t have to wait. Just play what you have at the moment and then what you have later.

When the system is predicated on 'leveling up,' when there are dead levels in there to space out abilities, when everything is built on a sense of progression through a chart instead of making each level it's own big deal... You're going to be waiting.

In an ideal world I could pick... 4th level for example, and run a year long campaign there without any expectation of advancement because every class is amazing and 4th level is distinctly 4th level.

As it is, 4th level is just part of the flow, as is every other level.

 

[Ogre Mage]

I have little interest in those levels and have rarely played them. I'd be fine with the game ending at 15. But based on what I see online, there does seem to be a niche market for it.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’m actually planning to have my next camps cap at 11th level.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have recently run a campaign up to level 20, at my players request. And my conclusion is 5e is a terrible terrible system at level 16-20. Encounters are slow, almost impossible to balance, and players have so many abilities they keep forgetting what they can do. Thematically, the PCs teleport everywhere, go shopping in the far corners of the multiverse, and only get out of bed for godlike enemies.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

But from everything I've heard in the two decades that I've been playing D&D, people playing above 15th level almost never seems to happen.

Glances sideways in just having finished a 1-20 campaign

I do prefer lower levels though. You feel more like a grounded part of the world rather than a superhero or demigod. The DM is capping the next campaign at lvl 6 which I think is cool.