Why doesn't "precision damage" affect Undead?

[starwed]

I wish I could find an elegant rule that made sneak attack at least somewhat applicable.

Undead are immune to sneak attacks because they don't have vital organs, or indeed a vital system at all. They're animated by negative energy.

But it could be that the energy animating them also has weak points; if a rogue could discover a way to see these, and had a weapon which interfered with that energy, maybe she would be able to get some sneak attack dice out of it.

 

[Bad Paper]

Ranger with favored enemy Undead does get to apply the damage to Undead.

whaa? I thought not. Did they change this since 3.0, or am I just flat-out wrong?

Undead are just constructs made of a different material and animated by a different energy. No critical hits makes perfect sense to me.

And I hate the sneak attack mechanic anyway, so I don't see a problem with having things be immune to SA.

 

[frankthedm]

whaa? I thought not. Did they change this since 3.0, or am I just flat-out wrong?

Undead are just constructs made of a different material and animated by a different energy. No critical hits makes perfect sense to me.

And I hate the sneak attack mechanic anyway, so I don't see a problem with having things be immune to SA.

3.5 ranger damage bonus works against undead. It does not work on anything incoporeal or invisable though.

Crits hit guts and vital organs. Undead don't have those most of the time. Hell, peircing weapons should do reduced damage to anything immune to crits.

 

[IanB]

whaa? I thought not. Did they change this since 3.0, or am I just flat-out wrong?

Undead are just constructs made of a different material and animated by a different energy. No critical hits makes perfect sense to me.

And I hate the sneak attack mechanic anyway, so I don't see a problem with having things be immune to SA.

This is a 3.5 change, yes. Ranger bonus damage applies to every creature type now.

 

[IanB]

How did the designers overlook this stuff when they made that rule? Sure, undead can't be stabbed in the kidneys, but an undead hunter knows that ... he'll go for a target that will affect them.

Exactly, an undead hunter. That's consistent with the rules as they stand, which require special training (ranger favored enemy, skullclan hunter prestige class, etc.) to get that bonus damage.

 

[Hypersmurf]

whaa? I thought not. Did they change this since 3.0, or am I just flat-out wrong?

They changed it. In 3E, it didn't apply, and in addition, it was only usable within 30 feet.

In 3.5, the range limit is gone, and it cann affect undead/constructs/oozes/whatever.

- Roll the additional damage separatedly. If the total damage dealt is enough to drop the creature to 0 hp or less, you have hit the special vulnerable spot, and the creature is dead. If the extra damage isn't enough to drop the creature to 0 hp or less, then you only deal the normal damage for the weapon, not the extra damage for sneak attack or critical hit.

Doesn't the Buffy RPG have a similar mechanic? From memory, the idea is to make it sensible from a metagame perspective to spend a few rounds beating on a vampire before attempting to stake it... which means the mechanics tend to encourage combats that feel like the fights from the show...

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

- Roll the additional damage separatedly. If the total damage dealt is enough to drop the creature to 0 hp or less, you have hit the special vulnerable spot, and the creature is dead. If the extra damage isn't enough to drop the creature to 0 hp or less, then you only deal the normal damage for the weapon, not the extra damage for sneak attack or critical hit.

Doesn't the Buffy RPG have a similar mechanic? From memory, the idea is to make it sensible from a metagame perspective to spend a few rounds beating on a vampire before attempting to stake it... which means the mechanics tend to encourage combats that feel like the fights from the show...

I happen to do the same thing with my vampires.

Give the undead bonus HP in some manner to raise their totals somewhat and make them vulnerable to crits against certain specific weapons.

Zombies: Axes and most other x3 crit slashing weapons.

Skeletons: Hammers and maces

Wight: Silver

Lich: Cold Iron and Blunt

Vampire: Silver piercing or Silver slashing or Ironwood piercing

Incorporeals: I’d say leave immune to crits.

 

[Hypersmurf]

3.5 ranger damage bonus works against undead. It does not work on anything incoporeal or invisable though.

I give up. Where's the incorporeal/invisible restriction found?

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

I give up. Where's the incorporeal/invisible restriction found?

-Hyp.

Look under Special Abilities.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#incorporeality
Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility
Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger’s favored enemy and from sneak attacks.

 

[Klaus]

They changed it. In 3E, it didn't apply, and in addition, it was only usable within 30 feet.

In 3.5, the range limit is gone, and it cann affect undead/constructs/oozes/whatever.



Doesn't the Buffy RPG have a similar mechanic? From memory, the idea is to make it sensible from a metagame perspective to spend a few rounds beating on a vampire before attempting to stake it... which means the mechanics tend to encourage combats that feel like the fights from the show...

-Hyp.

Precisely where I got my idea from.