Why doesn't "precision damage" affect Undead?

[Hypersmurf]

Look under Special Abilities.

You know, I could have sworn I did?

It rang all sorts of bells, but when I went looking, I just couldn't find it!

Ta

-Hyp.

 

[GorTeX]

Look under Special Abilities.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#incorporeality
Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, extra damage from being favored enemies, and from sneak attacks.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#invisibility
Invisibility does not, by itself, make a creature immune to critical hits, but it does make the creature immune to extra damage from being a ranger’s favored enemy and from sneak attacks.

Wow..that is hidden well.

 

[frankthedm]

Wow..that is hidden well.

Tell me about it. I just noticed that one a few days ago.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Tell me about it. I just noticed that one a few days ago.

Interestingly, though, while it doesn't work against something the ranger doesn't see, it works against something the ranger doesn't recognise.

Druid wildshaped into a bear? He gets his +6 damage from Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human), even if he has no idea it's a human.

Vampire posing as a living man? +4 from Favored Enemy: Undead applies.

Doppelganger? He might look like a Humanoid (Elf), but he takes damage like an Monstrous Humanoid!

-Hyp.

 

[frankthedm]

Interestingly, though, while it doesn't work against something the ranger doesn't see, it works against something the ranger doesn't recognise.

Druid wildshaped into a bear? He gets his +6 damage from Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human), even if he has no idea it's a human.

Vampire posing as a living man? +4 from Favored Enemy: Undead applies.

Doppelganger? He might look like a Humanoid (Elf), but he takes damage like an Monstrous Humanoid!

-Hyp.

A big reason why I've never been too keen on favored enemy Aberration. It is brand new to your world and utterly alien in form, yet you know just where to strike it.

Why doesn't "precision damage" affect Undead?

Because that is a balancing factor of precision damage, not everything will suffer the extra damage. A good portion of your foes will render extended crits, sneak attack and whatever useless. I believe that was an active design desision. If everything was crit-able, 18-20 crit ranges become too good, keen might need to be a +2 mod, Improved crit might be BAB +12, sneak attack dice would have to be cut down to d4's and the anti undead abilties of clerics would have to be reduced.

 

[interwyrm]

Interestingly, though, while it doesn't work against something the ranger doesn't see, it works against something the ranger doesn't recognise.

Druid wildshaped into a bear? He gets his +6 damage from Favored Enemy: Humanoid (Human), even if he has no idea it's a human.

Vampire posing as a living man? +4 from Favored Enemy: Undead applies.

Doppelganger? He might look like a Humanoid (Elf), but he takes damage like an Monstrous Humanoid!

-Hyp.

This reminds me of some situations from Legend of the Five Rings.

Basically, one kind of character, a Crab Bushi, or something, gets an ability to do extra damage to a tainted creature before it gets the ability to sense taint.

In other words, a lower level Crab Bushi just senses taint by checking how much he hurts people.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In other words, a lower level Crab Bushi just senses taint by checking how much he hurts people.

You can get a similar situation with a Paladin.

"I'm sensing an evil aura off that creature."
"But is the creature evil? Maybe it's a non-evil undead. Maybe it's a non-evil cleric of an evil deity. Maybe it has an evil spell cast on it, and that's the aura you're sensing."
"Good point. I'll Smite him. If he gets hurt real bad, he's evil. Hurt just a little bit, and he probably isn't."

-Hyp.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

You can get a similar situation with a Paladin.

"I'm sensing an evil aura off that creature."
"But is the creature evil? Maybe it's a non-evil undead. Maybe it's a non-evil cleric of an evil deity. Maybe it has an evil spell cast on it, and that's the aura you're sensing."
"Good point. I'll Smite him. If he gets hurt real bad, he's evil. Hurt just a little bit, and he probably isn't."

-Hyp.

Good thing the Complete Scoundrel has the Grey Guard PrC to help keep that kind of behaviour from adversely affecting the Paladin too much.

Seriously though, one of the later Dragon Magazines had a Ranger Class act that talked about the Ranger's "litmus test" identification ability. Talked about things like Spot vs. Disguise, with a list of modifiers and whatnot. Of course, if you look into this too much you usually end up in the good ol' "Is favoured enemy bonus based on anatomy knowledge or cultural study/bias?" argument.

To the topic however, I think part of the immunity comes from the idea that precision damage is more than just "soft spots" on the body. Sometimes you end up taking an injury that just hurts way more than it damages (classic example is of course, the funny bone). Constructs, Oozes, Plants, and Undead don't typically feel pain and so none of those.. pressure points?.. when struck apply the same deabilitating effect they would on a live foe.

Look at caltrops - that's an example of something that doesn't do much damage but still hinders the victim a great deal. If a DM told me that zombies aren't bothered by caltrops because they don't feel pain, I'd buy it.

J from Three Haligonians

 

[Li Shenron]

It just doesn't fit in with what pop culture shows us about undead.

How do you kill a zombie? You hit it in the head.

Honestly I don't care if D&D zombies fit with Romero's zombies, much like I don't need D&D vampires to fit with Buffy's vampires. D&D doesn't have to "fit" with a specific pop culture, although it often tries to.

D&D undead have no body functions, so hitting a zombie in the heart doesn't hurt more because its heart is not beating, and hitting it in the head doesn't either because he's brain is not working. If Romero wanted his zombie's brain to still work (despite the rest of them doesn't), it doesn't mean that D&D has to be the same.

Who can say that Romero "got it right" and D&D "got it wrong"?

But then if in your own game you wish to change it, you're totally entired to of course! It's just that when designing D&D they had to make certain assumption about how things work and why...

 

[bestone]

you know what would be neato?

if under big bad undead creatures, like vampires it had a section stating that characters who make knowledge (whatevers relevant) checks of dc whatever, CAN critically hit this undead, if they fail, then its as per norm and no