Why don’t players surrender... would we want them too?

[Jd Smith1]

I think at this point, you’re just thread crapping and getting a bit hostile in the process.

Not at all.

Telling us that if you don’t kill your PCs when they surrender you’re doing it wrong, is kinda against the whole premise of the thread.

I said nothing of the sort. Please stick to the truth.

The point of the thread is the question: why players don't surrender more.

Incidentally the reason for death saves and raise the dead. Is that when the PCs are dead the story ends. We want to see what happens to our characters so we try and keep the story going for as long as it makes sense.

The story never ends. But when PCs die, it gets new characters. If PCs never die, it's not a story, it's just, IMO, a GM talking. And again, that's fine so long as it isn't at my table.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Which- crucially- is not every slave owning culture in the history of the world. The fact that the slavery of this DM’s game world were run differently is neither ahistorical nor nerfing, just different.

And here we disagree.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Again, you can have any of those things without meaning that someone is nerfing things to prevent bad things from happening to a PC.

I disagree. If the PCs can't die, IMO, what is the point of combat? Save a lot of dice rolling, and just announce a victory, hand out the loot, and move on.

It feels like a 'participation trophy' sort of thing. If the PCs can't die, what success can they claim? This is not a rhetorical question.

I'm not saying it is wrong, I'm pointing out that I don't understand.

 

[TheSword]

I disagree. If the PCs can't die, IMO, what is the point of combat? Save a lot of dice rolling, and just announce a victory, hand out the loot, and move on.

It feels like a 'participation trophy' sort of thing. If the PCs can't die, what success can they claim? This is not a rhetorical question.

PCs can die, one died in a session two weeks ago. You can burn through Death Saves very quickly particularly when someone rolls an unlucky 1. If you have three players it’s much easier for players to die. Not all players take healing word, or have slots left for it. Raise the dead isn’t always an option if there isn’t someone to cast it, or if the player doesn’t want to be brought back.

This isn’t a thread about whether death should be final through.

 

[Derren]

Enslaving enemy warriors was common throughout the world as they were an easy source of "others" to enslave. That they were unwilling, like all slaves, was no problem. Slavers were usually very good in breaking people over time.

And even if you just want to extract information, this too takes time. Torture produces unreliable information and has to be done by specialists. That is double true for D&D with various forms of mind reading magic.
So its rather believable that prisoners are not killed instantly. That likely only happens when it is clear that the prisoner has nothing to offer (for example always evil creatures after a big battle. You don't need their information and if you do not enslave them there is no need to keep them around).

 

[Scott Christian]

One slaver got choked to death by my PC using his shackles as an improvised garrote during the rescue. There are no dangerous weapons, only dangerous men.

I will say this. The rules for D&D do not lend themselves to capture and escape. If the NPC's are able to capture the PC's, then once the PC's are without weapons or spells, they would have a very difficult time overpowering their captors. Same with stealth, unless you make the guards all minions with 1 hp, odds are many would just escape and get the group that had originally captured them.
I am sure there are workarounds. But, I am speaking from the most general perspective.

 

[Derren]

I will say this. The rules for D&D do not lend themselves to capture and escape. If the NPC's are able to capture the PC's, then once the PC's are without weapons or spells, they would have a very difficult time overpowering their captors. Same with stealth, unless you make the guards all minions with 1 hp, odds are many would just escape and get the group that had originally captured them.
I am sure there are workarounds. But, I am speaking from the most general perspective.

That is a problem with expectations.
Imo players expect that when they are captured that they of course have a way to escape, recover all their gear easily and can continue to kill everyone. Many do not get the idea that they should ditch their gear and just focus on escaping.

And most of the time they are right as DMs do not want to throw away the plot and do a "six months later on the slave market" thing.

 

[nevin]

Escaping is more of a story thing than a die to thing. Familiars can get away and come back to help get key, rebels, bandits whoever can raid the enemy creating an opportunity.
For me it depends on circumstances. I've run several campaigns in the first one my players would fight to the death every time and it was my fault I made everything black and white. Getting captured was a loss of resources a, time great story for me for the players not so much. In a situation like that as a player I'd rather die reroll and start over. I suspect a lot new GMs do that to thier players.
One of my favorite games as a player we got got caught tortured for information, escaped and caused so much havoc from that game on when my paladin raised his standard To orcs unless the odds were overwhelming against us the orcs would usually withdraw.
It's a shame there's great story potential for things like that but new GMs tend to run games like horror movies, or Conan where the bad guys kill or eat everyone. So players are trained that death is better than capture. And then of course sometimes the player wants to be a knight, or boromir the player that just won't give up.

 

[John Dallman]

Personally, I have surrendered if I thought it was something my PC would do. The last time I remember doing so, I was a playing a multiclassed ranger who was scouting and I rolled a 2 on my check to see if I noticed the enemy’s outriders sneaking up on me.

Surrendering feels safer if there hasn't been bloodshed immediately beforehand. I'm guessing there wasn't in your case: did you find yourself surprised, alone and severely outnumbered?

 

[nevin]

I think sometimes DMs forget dice don't have to rule everything. The players can go down thinking they are dead and wake up in captivity.