D&D 5E "Why don't you just shoot it?"

[Shiroiken]

Lol, ok, ok, either I'm not explaining why it bugs me very well, or I'm the only one who feels that way. I can accept that either (or both) are true.

Anytime you build a character that is linear in nature, you are going to have a weakness. You can do a few things to limit that weakness, but you usually can't eliminate it. Spellcasters are often neutered by Globes or Beholders (but could use a weapon instead of a cantrip). Melee characters are often neutered by fliers (but can use thrown weapons). Archers are often neutered by swarms of creatures (but can use a melee weapon). Yes you are less effective, but that's usually part of the challenge.

Dex melee fighters do have a slight advantage on Str melee fighters, since bows have better range and can extra attack, but this is part of a lot of people's complaint about Dex as a whole.

 

[ccs]

I see this argument all the time. "Oh, you can't reach an enemy in melee, why don't you have a bow?"

It annoys me because yes, you can use a bow to attack enemies at long range, but if you're a melee character, this might not be as easy or effective as it sounds.

First of all, let's talk action economy. I can drop a weapon and use my free 'interact with an object' action to equip a ranged weapon. Of course, now my main weapon is on the ground, let's hope I'm not forced to move, or an enemy can't mess with it. If I use two weapons or a shield (since it appears that shields are held in 5e, not strapped to one's arm), then I have two items on the ground, which means I'd have to use an action to pick up both of them later.

Now we move onto effectiveness. A Dexterity-based character won't lose any chance to hit, but a Strength-based one might. This might not be more than a few points, but it could be. Since it's impossible to have a consensus on how much of an issue this might be, all I can do is point to the extremes.

Dexterity-based melee Fighter: virtually no downside.
Strength-based Fighter who also has a high Dexterity (Maybe a game that doesn't use point-buy?): likely a slight disadvantage, no more than -2 to hit.
Strength-based Fighter who doesn't have a good Dexterity: anywhere from -3 to -6 to hit.

This isn't taking into account Archery Fighting Style or ranged Feats, such as Sharpshooter (which can have a serious impact if cover is present. If the enemy is easy to hit, to where a normal melee character using a ranged attack isn't really in danger of missing, then the dedicated archer is getting +10 damage to his attacks...). It neither takes into account melee-based Fighting Styles or Feats, which can't be used in these sorts of scenarios.

Nor does it take into account magic items, as, again, impossible to have a consensus about their absence or presence.

The point I want to make though, is that the ability to attack with a bow as a melee character can be a severe disadvantage, and greatly reduce the impact your character can have on a combat. Yes, having a bow can still allow you to participate in the combat, but it shouldn't be treated as an option that never seriously limits what a character can do in an encounter.

And I've seen people treat it in that exact manner far too many times; "Oh fighting a dragon, why don't you have a bow lol".

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say "Oh fighting a Wizard with Wind Wall, why don't you have a greatsword lol". And I've never heard anyone say "Oh you're a Sorcerer fighting someone protected by a Globe of Invulnerability, why don't you have a quarterstaff lol".

Of course, now that I've said that, I'm sure someone will say it.

Ok. Just don't bitch that you feel useless when your sword isn't the right tool for the job.

If it's a RP thing like ranged weapons are against your knightly code or such? Great, forego missile weapons. I'm 100% in favor of you playing to your concept.

But the poo you just espoused? Pointlessly gimping your self.
So if you willingly go that route don't cry about it.

 

[Seramus]

It is a pain in the ass to switch weapons in the middle of combat, essentially requiring you to spend an entire round swapping if you don't want to drop your weapons on the ground. And that does make things awkward, since many fights might start with ranged combat and then transition into melee when the enemy gets close. Then you have to choose to drop your bow or waste a round swapping.

But don't forget that Dodging is an option too! I've played several tank characters that would stand out in the open, shouting and jeering at the enemy, just to make them waste actions and ammo trying to shoot me or waste spells while I was Dodging.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm still hearing "Feature, not bug."

 

[The Crimson Binome]

The DMs I've played with haven't been such a stickler for the rules. It's not like this is Pathfinder or anything.

Just sheathe your weapon and draw your bow as the same object interaction. It makes for simpler action economy, and you don't have to track where weapons are littered around the battlefield.

 

[KahlessNestor]

I have no problem with dropping my weapon to swap another. It's a free action. And if I have to move? That's what backup weapons are for. And always carry a dagger. You will eventually get back around to your weapon.

I had a longspear fighter who was guman, and the first adventure we kept fighting in the dark and no one had light (they had darkvision. I'm also a girm believer in bring your own damn light. So I dual weilded shortsword and torch.

You aren't always expected to be the combat god you think you are. A bit of planning and you can still contribute.

Unless you're my Jedi that lost her lightsaber. Sigh. That was a long three sessions!

Sent from my SM-G900P using EN World mobile app

 

[Stormdale]

Recently my group got to fight an adult dragon, in the open while they were surprised (it came roaring down a gully they were creeping though). The dragon swooped down, picked up the barbarian and dropped him from a great height...splat. The rogue ran out on to the plains to help as did the paladin leaving the wizard to hurl spells such as fireball at it. The paladin spent a few rounds chasing the dragon trying to get it to fight her but alas she lacked a ranged weapon- hey, not my fault- and the dragon made use of the obvious advantages of flight + breath weapon + the great outdoors to avoid melee comba.

After being hit by a couple of fireballs the dragon got annoyed with the wizard and came swooping in vs him to repeat the tactic that had taken care of the barbarian. The Paladin player had moved closer to protect the wizard-hoping to get the dragon to melee her instead, turned to me and stated "I delay my action (or whatever it is called in 5e) and will cast a spell when it is close enough..." I like playing double blind so don't ask for what spell, just need to know the player is casting, after 17 years gaming together we trust each other but I knew by the tone of his voice he was up to something, I could sense a trap, but sure I'll go with that. The player kept asking me how high is it now, how far from me is it etc. Then suddenly boom!

"I cast misty step onto its back!" WTF?

Dragon flies straight up, trying to shake off the paladin who was busy now using every smite she could muster. It was then when she had to make checks to avoid being thrown off that the player reminded me of the gloves of swimming and climbing that she had gained several adventures earlier but had been all but forgotten by me...till now.

Dragon died, wizard cast featherfall on falling paladin, rest was history. Damn I love it when my players get one over on me. They damn well deserved their victory as I wasn't pulling any punches.

Morale of the story: Taking a ranged weapon to is sensible, but sometimes necessity is the mother of invention and in this case the paladin overcame the glaring weakness with style and panache.

Stormdale

 

[Uchawi]

It's a game. If you want realism then take up archery in real life? I agree overall that 5E is too simple when considering melee or ranged combat.

 

[Ganymede81]

A few years ago, I participated in an ENWorld Game Day one-shot at a local game store. We all supplied our own PCs, based on the limitations pre-distributed by the DM. For the final encounter, the party was fighting a pair of green dragons who had enough space in their lair to remain airborne most of the time. One PC didn't have a ranged or reach weapon at all. He ran around the battlefield trying to attack the critters when they did land.

...but he couldn't close the distance fast enough to reach them before they were aloft again. He never landed a blow.

Climb the lair's walls, jump onto a dragon's back, and then use the Climb onto a Bigger Creature action from the DMG. From there, he can wail on the dragon while latched onto its back.

That's one out-of-the-box possibility for such a character.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

He would have had some difficulty making those climb checks in full plate. And had either dragon noticed his attempts, he'd have been virtually helpless.