D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Mirtek]

With 5e and the return to a closer to original FR, my interest in the setting has gone from, "Hrm, maybe I might give this a shot" to "nope, sorry, not interested."

See, that's the problem. They tried to cater to non-fans and all they got was a "maybe". The fans they had voted with their wallet and did not maybe stop, they actually stopped. Old customers gone, new customers not arriving. Logical conclusion we can see in 5e

 

[Hussar]

You're kind of missing the point I made - a lot of us already have this stuff from back when WOTC and FR was the only game in town. No need to go out and research it, that parts already been done. I've never even heard of Zeitgeist until you mentioned it. If I wanted to use that, I'd have to research it.

If I want to use FR, I just have to go my bookshelf or look at the maps I already have.

I'm sure a lot of people use the Pathfinder setting for the same reason - they already have the stuff, why not?

This is doubly true for anyone who plays in Adventure League or Pathfinder Society - they're going to be buying supplements to use with their characters in that setting, might as well get some more use out of it if you are running a home game.

I don't use the FR setting anymore, for much the same reason you don't - too much history and too many overpowered NPC's that players might argue with me about (although I know far more about FR lore than my current set of players do). I prefer to use my own setting and stories, but I still have maps and books. It's easier for me to re-use the FR pantheon and maps than create my own (although I did use my own maps in my current campaign for story reasons).

It's not "15 pounds of food" - it's more like "15 pounds of Lego pieces" - I already bought the sets, they aren't going anywhere, and I can use them to make my own stuff.

Ok, so, now, how much time and money would it cost me to get to your level of material for Forgotten Realms? Few hundred dollars and several hours of reading? Probably not a totally unreasonable guess. So, what do I get in return for that that I cannot get anywhere else? What is FR offering me that I can't get elsewhere?

That's what I mean about the wall of material turning me off the setting. I never bought into the setting in the first place. My knowledge of the setting is largely gleaned from Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games. That and the odd Dragon article. I'm in no way saying that the material is bad. It isn't. I'm also not saying I don't understand why anyone would use the Realms. I get it. If you've invested in the setting, by all means you should be using it.

But for me (and only me), the pay off nowhere near justifies the initial cost of investment. I'll play in FR. That's fine. I have enough general knowledge that I can play in it. But run it? And do what I would consider to be a good job of it? No thanks. I'll pass.

See, that's the problem. They tried to cater to non-fans and all they got was a "maybe". The fans they had voted with their wallet and did not maybe stop, they actually stopped. Old customers gone, new customers not arriving. Logical conclusion we can see in 5e

Oh, totally get it. Nope, I understand 100% why I'm getting kicked to the curb here as a consumer. And it doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. It's perfectly fine. There's too many other options out there to get fussed about not being a FR consumer.

 

[Zardnaar]

Ok, so, now, how much time and money would it cost me to get to your level of material for Forgotten Realms? Few hundred dollars and several hours of reading? Probably not a totally unreasonable guess. So, what do I get in return for that that I cannot get anywhere else? What is FR offering me that I can't get elsewhere?

That's what I mean about the wall of material turning me off the setting. I never bought into the setting in the first place. My knowledge of the setting is largely gleaned from Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale games. That and the odd Dragon article. I'm in no way saying that the material is bad. It isn't. I'm also not saying I don't understand why anyone would use the Realms. I get it. If you've invested in the setting, by all means you should be using it.

But for me (and only me), the pay off nowhere near justifies the initial cost of investment. I'll play in FR. That's fine. I have enough general knowledge that I can play in it. But run it? And do what I would consider to be a good job of it? No thanks. I'll pass.



Oh, totally get it. Nope, I understand 100% why I'm getting kicked to the curb here as a consumer. And it doesn't bother me. It really doesn't. It's perfectly fine. There's too many other options out there to get fussed about not being a FR consumer.

You don't need all that. When I 1st ran the Realms I only had the 1994 boxed set. You can easily run with the Grey Box, FR adventures, FRCS or the 4E book.

Its up to you how much material you want to throw at a setting.[HI][/HI]

 

[Hussar]

You don't need all that. When I 1st ran the Realms I only gad the 1994boxed set. You can easily run with the Grey Box, FR adventures, FRCS or the 4E book.

Its up to you how much material you want to throw at a setting.

I agree. But, for me to feel like I'm actually doing the setting justice and running Forgotten Realms and not just "Hussar's loosely inspired Forgotten Realms" game, I'd want to use the details. And, again, if all I'm using is the FRCS (or whatever), well, that's barely a FR game, AFAIC. Sure, you've got some of the proper nouns in there, but, without the rest of it, it's not really a FR game.

It's kinda like Dragonlance. If you want me to run a Heroes of the Lance era Dragonlance game, I'm all over that. I can do that and I think I could really do it justice. But, set it in Age of Mortals? I'm completely lost. Totally out to sea. Recent discussions about canon have highlighted quite well just how out of touch I am. So, in order to run an Age of Mortals game, I'd have to do a LOT of homework. Several supplements and probably a few novels as well worth of homework. And I'm just not interested in doing that much homework in building the background of the campaign. I'd rather just build the campaign instead.

Again, and I keep asking the question, where is the upside for me to run a Forgotten Realms game that only references the FRCS (to use that example)? What am I getting out of it that I can't get anywhere else? Isn't a large part of the draw for FR, Realmslore? It's not like the setting is terribly unique in other ways. It doesn't have the built in feel of something like Ravenloft or Al Quadim. It's not drawing on a bunch of new(ish) ideas like Planescape or Spelljammer. It's vanilla D&D. I certainly don't need a setting guide to run vanilla D&D. I can do that on my own pretty darn well.

 

[Zardnaar]

I agree. But, for me to feel like I'm actually doing the setting justice and running Forgotten Realms and not just "Hussar's loosely inspired Forgotten Realms" game, I'd want to use the details. And, again, if all I'm using is the FRCS (or whatever), well, that's barely a FR game, AFAIC. Sure, you've got some of the proper nouns in there, but, without the rest of it, it's not really a FR game.

It's kinda like Dragonlance. If you want me to run a Heroes of the Lance era Dragonlance game, I'm all over that. I can do that and I think I could really do it justice. But, set it in Age of Mortals? I'm completely lost. Totally out to sea. Recent discussions about canon have highlighted quite well just how out of touch I am. So, in order to run an Age of Mortals game, I'd have to do a LOT of homework. Several supplements and probably a few novels as well worth of homework. And I'm just not interested in doing that much homework in building the background of the campaign. I'd rather just build the campaign instead.

Again, and I keep asking the question, where is the upside for me to run a Forgotten Realms game that only references the FRCS (to use that example)? What am I getting out of it that I can't get anywhere else? Isn't a large part of the draw for FR, Realmslore? It's not like the setting is terribly unique in other ways. It doesn't have the built in feel of something like Ravenloft or Al Quadim. It's not drawing on a bunch of new(ish) ideas like Planescape or Spelljammer. It's vanilla D&D. I certainly don't need a setting guide to run vanilla D&D. I can do that on my own pretty darn well.

Well FR may not be for you. Its a generic sandbox that might not appeal to you.

 

[Hussar]

Well FR may not be for you. Its a generic sandbox that might not appeal to you.

Which is pretty much what I've been saying all the way along. No might about it. It's a generic sandbox (and I'm not even convinced too much about the sandbox either - too much of the setting is detailed for it to be a sandbox to me) that doesn't really offer anything to me that I can't get from a dozen other products.

 

[prosfilaes]

Isnt it like the reason why Thor and the Hulk dont show up in an Iron man movie? Because it is an Iron man movie. Or is that just meta-thinking?

I'd say one of the problems that people have with superhero universes is when Thor and the Hulk don't show up when needed because it is an Iron Man movie. I think "just" meta-thinking might be a little unfair; there's points in both RPGs and movies where stuff happens because of plot and you should just roll with it, and this may or may not be a problem to people. But, yeah, I'd call it meta-thinking.

 

[Sadras]

Seriously, I think mountains have been made out of molehills in this thread.

It's my first year running a game in the FR world (Sundering/ToD mix storyline) and our table has seen no problems. No continuity issues, no over-the-top NPCs, no magic-is-everywhere. I made the setting my own and I don't have to deal with all the history of every person, item or location at once. Seriously who does that?
Does Elminster exist? Probably. He's off-screen for now until such time that the characters even hear of him so I dont have to deal with his realm lore.

It is much easier to adopt a setting and make changes than start from scratch. We do it with maps and modules. We can certainly do it with settings. Hell, why play D&D when you can create your own system? Because its easier when you have the groundwork done. Period.

 

[Derren]

As for not running it as written? Well, I can't. Nor am I worried about it. Because:
1) Over the years we've run adventures that've altered the FR at our table in ways quite different to what TSR/WoTC have eventually written. They're late to my party, not the other way around....
2) I haven't read a FR novel in 25 years. And I'm not going to. But even if I did? The novels =/= script for the games I run.
3) The 4e changes & changes back don't apply to my game.

Which means you are not actually using the realms, you just use a 3rd party map for your games.

 

[Caliban]

Ok, so, now, how much time and money would it cost me to get to your level of material for Forgotten Realms? Few hundred dollars and several hours of reading? Probably not a totally unreasonable guess. So, what do I get in return for that that I cannot get anywhere else? What is FR offering me that I can't get elsewhere?

I've already told you a couple of times now - if this doesn't apply to you (already having a bunch of FR stuff and experience from previous editions), you have no reason to use it.

Why do you keep pretending that I'm telling you that you should be using it when I'm saying the opposite?