D&D 5E Why FR Is "Hated"

[Hussar]

I'm being told, repeatedly, that if I want to use the Realms, I just eject the stuff I don't want to use.

Fair enough. But, there's an inbuilt assumption there that I have to actually know what I want to eject before I eject it. I mean, if I'm just going to (as one poster above suggests) only use the old Grey Box, sure, now I get a stripped down setting. But, at that point, what does FR have to offer that I can't get anywhere else? A nice map? Well, I've got www.cartographersguild.org for that - professional quality maps out the wazoo. Basic country descriptions? This is 2017, I've got ten thousand of those to choose from. Lists of NPC's? Heck, I can use online generators to create hundreds of those.

So, again, what's the draw here? D&D generic fantasy kitchen sink setting with no defining themes? Hey, yeah, let me jump right on that one. Look, if I'm going to strip out 99% of the material for the setting, there's nothing left in the FR that I can't get from a dozen other settings with equally high (or higher) production values and quality writing.

Or, put it another way, if I'm only going to use Forgotten Realms for a single campaign once every decade or so, why would I use Forgotten Realms and not En World's own Zeitgeist setting? What does FR offer to me that Zeitgeist doesn't?

 

[Caliban]

Or, put it another way, if I'm only going to use Forgotten Realms for a single campaign once every decade or so, why would I use Forgotten Realms and not En World's own Zeitgeist setting? What does FR offer to me that Zeitgeist doesn't?

If I had to guess, I'd say:

Better advertising (almost all D&D players are at least aware of the setting).

Shared Knowledge (Several books have been published set in the Realms that many players and DM's have read.)

Prior Investment (many of us grew up reading about and playing in the Realms and have old supplements and maps on hand).

If none of the above apply to you...then yeah, you have no reason to use the Forgotten Realms setting, or any part of it.

Myself, I was a teenager or in my 20's when most of the big FR supplements came out. I have a lot of them in my closet, and their maps are on my walls.

I generally don't set my games in the Realms anymore, but it is a ready-made trove of maps, supplements, and lore that I can raid when setting up a new campaign.

 

[cbwjm]

I'm being told, repeatedly, that if I want to use the Realms, I just eject the stuff I don't want to use.

Fair enough. But, there's an inbuilt assumption there that I have to actually know what I want to eject before I eject it. I mean, if I'm just going to (as one poster above suggests) only use the old Grey Box, sure, now I get a stripped down setting. But, at that point, what does FR have to offer that I can't get anywhere else? A nice map? Well, I've got www.cartographersguild.org for that - professional quality maps out the wazoo. Basic country descriptions? This is 2017, I've got ten thousand of those to choose from. Lists of NPC's? Heck, I can use online generators to create hundreds of those.

So, again, what's the draw here? D&D generic fantasy kitchen sink setting with no defining themes? Hey, yeah, let me jump right on that one. Look, if I'm going to strip out 99% of the material for the setting, there's nothing left in the FR that I can't get from a dozen other settings with equally high (or higher) production values and quality writing.

Or, put it another way, if I'm only going to use Forgotten Realms for a single campaign once every decade or so, why would I use Forgotten Realms and not En World's own Zeitgeist setting? What does FR offer to me that Zeitgeist doesn't?

Honestly, if you are fine with grabbing all of that stuff from elsewhere then go ahead. I mean it sounds like you really, really don't want to use FR, so don't. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying you need to use it as your setting.

 

[Elderbrain]

I don't hate the Realms - I've bought Realms books every edition - notwithstanding I didn't like what was done to the Realms in the 4e era - but I do resent the fact that it's basically the only campaign setting supported in 5e. In 3e, FR and the then-new Ebberron campaign setting got hardcovers and Greyhawk a softcover book. In 4e, Only FR, Dark Sun, and the new Netir Vale setting were supported. Greyhawk got nothing. Nada. Zilch. They even appropriated Greyhawk material and incorporated it into the Netir Vale setting! I mention Greyhawk and not, say, Birthright and the other neglected settings because so much of D&D has its roots in Greyhawk - NPCS like Vecna, spells and magical items, and monsters. Yeah, I know, economics - FR sells well - but...

 

[Maxperson]

In fact, with a little bad luck, your character will likely at some point end up playing second fiddle to one of these ego puffing FR demi-gawds who have already been there, done that. That is what I see when I look at FR as opposed to my own setting- why play in a world that has already been over done to death? Why play in a world where the mighty Spellhintster or Frizzt the Frow, or any other popular namesake have already done everything twice over?

Not bad luck. A bad DM. There's a difference. No mediocre or better DM is going to do that to you.

 

[Hussar]

If I had to guess, I'd say:

Better advertising (almost all D&D players are at least aware of the setting).

Shared Knowledge (Several books have been published set in the Realms that many players and DM's have read.)

Prior Investment (many of us grew up reading about and playing in the Realms and have old supplements and maps on hand).

If none of the above apply to you...then yeah, you have no reason to use the Forgotten Realms setting, or any part of it.

Myself, I was a teenager or in my 20's when most of the big FR supplements came out. I have a lot of them in my closet, and their maps are on my walls.

I generally don't set my games in the Realms anymore, but it is a ready-made trove of maps, supplements, and lore that I can raid when setting up a new campaign.

And that's my point though. Your three points don't really apply if I'm ejecting 99% of the setting. All that prior knowledge doesn't matter since it won't apply to this campaign. I'm simply replying to the point that people keep telling me that I can use the Realms and just pick and choose what I want to use. But, if I do that, then there really isn't anything that FR offers me that any other setting doesn't. Which is why I don't use the Realms. The basic question was, why is FR "hated". AFAIC, I don't hate the Realms. I'm utterly indifferent to the Realms. Meaning that branding anything as part of FR does nothing for me.

Honestly, if you are fine with grabbing all of that stuff from elsewhere then go ahead. I mean it sounds like you really, really don't want to use FR, so don't. No one is holding a gun to your head and saying you need to use it as your setting.

I'm simply explaining why not. To me, the mountain of material is a major barrier to me getting into the setting. If they were to reboot the setting, I might actually be interested in it. It wasn't until the 4e Spellplague that FR even registered on my personal radar, specfically because it kicked all that material to the sideline. With 5e and the return to a closer to original FR, my interest in the setting has gone from, "Hrm, maybe I might give this a shot" to "nope, sorry, not interested."

 

[Caliban]

And that's my point though. Your three points don't really apply if I'm ejecting 99% of the setting. All that prior knowledge doesn't matter since it won't apply to this campaign. I'm simply replying to the point that people keep telling me that I can use the Realms and just pick and choose what I want to use. But, if I do that, then there really isn't anything that FR offers me that any other setting doesn't. Which is why I don't use the Realms. The basic question was, why is FR "hated". AFAIC, I don't hate the Realms. I'm utterly indifferent to the Realms. Meaning that branding anything as part of FR does nothing for me.

Hey, you asked, I answered. Not "the basic question", but the question you asked that I quoted in my response. You don't get to change the question just because you don't like the answers.

My three points addressed why so many people (myself included) do use parts of the FR setting even if they don't use the setting as a whole.

And you apparently ignored the real answer to your question:

If none of the above apply to you...then yeah, you have no reason to use the Forgotten Realms setting, or any part of it.

 

[Hussar]

Hey, you asked, I answered. Not "the basic question", but the question you asked that I quoted in my response. You don't get to change the question just because you don't like the answers.

My three points addressed why so many people (myself included) do use parts of the FR setting even if they don't use the setting as a whole.

And you apparently ignored the real answer to your question:

Oh, and that's totally fair. If you want to use the Realms, go right ahead. If you want to pick and choose this or that, more power to you. I'm certainly not above yoinking maps or NPC's or whatnot. That's totally fair game.

My response is more along the lines of, "I don't use the Realms as a setting (instead of simply a resource) because the setting material is a roadblock to me getting into the setting. There's just too much of it for me to get into it." It's the same for Golarian. I'm using one of the Kingmaker maps in my current adventure, but, I'm not going to go out and start buying Golarian material just for that. I used it because I found it in a Google Image search, not because it was from Golarian.

To give a different example, I wouldn't run a Star Wars game either. Simply because I know I couldn't do it justice. I've watched the movies, but, that's about it. I'm not an EU fan. The last Star Wars books I read were the Thrawn books back in what, the late 80's, early 90's? For me to even begin running a SW game, I'd have hours of homework to do and I'm just not interested. I'd play (and I have no problems playing in Forgotten Realms either), but I wouldn't run. If I was running a Space Opera game, I'd go with a different system and setting specifically so that I didn't have to do hours of homework to do it justice.

 

[Shardstone]

There's a lot of exaggerations flying around right now.

99% of the setting is one of them. No one is saying anything close to that. Remove parts you don't like is what we're saying. If you don't know what it is you don't like, then you don't know what the setting is about or whats in it. You can apply this argument to Zeitgeist. Why should I use Zeitgeist if I need to modify it to suit what I want? Why should I use Zeitgeist if I have to research it?

Your argument is basically "Why should I use this setting?" which isn't an argument, it's a question for you to answer. Like an above user said, you don't HAVE to use Forgotten Realms. If you want to ignore it and resent it, you're free to do so. But you can't say you don't like it because it is a kitchen sink when you haven't even done enough research into the setting to know what it actually is. It's like saying you hate a certain type of food because you heard its name and other people like it without even knowing what the food is.

 

[Shasarak]

It would probably be best to leave out the real world analogies. That said, it's little wonder you don't get Eberron. You're blindly running in, guns-blazing, treating the world as if you're in the heroic epic fantasy of Forgotten Realms with zero political consequences.

Political consequences only really happen to other people that worry about political consequences. Did Alexander the Great worry about the political consequences of invading Persia? Did Genghis worry about the political consequences of invading China? How did the Kingdom of Galifar get formed if everyone sat around worrying about the political consequences? I mean if this is the way that I "dont get" Eberron then I have to say that is great news because it would be nowhere as awesome if it was the way you suggest.