Why Games Workshop is not a good business

[El Mahdi]

Of course I don't like GW, but not because I have an axe to grind. They have never done me any wrong. Nor any good.

As for doubting the veracity of my argument, I understand why you feel that way, but before implying that my argument's veracity, you should get some information about GW.

2Bias" and "veracity" are not necessarily incompatible!

True.

But the point is that an argument without the obvious bias (or in other words, just sticking to the facts) has a much better chance of convincing people than the contrary.

When I see an argument that starts off right out of the gate like this, it's credibility level plummets even before getting to the meat of the argument. That is, if I don't stop reading before the meat of the argument because of the bias.

And why would I care to research GW myself? You haven't given me a compelling reason to do so. All you've convinced me of is that you feel this way about GW. Feelings and Biases aren't facts.

The case was poorly made.


Cheers!

 

[odinfellhammer]

I have been playing various wargames from Games Workshop for about 20 yrs. I have never had any problem with Customer Service or their employees. I called customer service because I had lost my rulebook for Titan Legions at Games day, and they sent me a new one free. Yes they are Expensive, but I enjoy the games. I buy in moderation. They are a good hobby and I have good friends from it.

 

[Leviatham]

Case? What case?

My writing was nothing more than an opinion piece, not investigative journalism or an attempt to alienate anyone against GW.

I wasn't intending on convincing anyone. What I wanted is to have dialogue and to get ideas and other opinions going. It has work and, for the most part, it has been a very civilised and rather interesting debate. Mission accomplished!

As much as I don't like GW, I wouldn't dare trying to convince anyone that they should stop buying or that they should believe they're a bad company. That opinion is my own. Some people agree for similar reasons, some agree for different reasons, some disagree for various reasons.

At the same time, I am not trying to convince anyone to go out there and research GW. If you are not into their products, your life is no better or worse than if you were. As you pointed, why should you spend your time doing said research?

Researching GW would be like researching the food industry. You'd find out a lot of things you probably wouldn't like, but it might not stop you from eating it!

 

[MGibster]

As for doubting the veracity of my argument, I understand why you feel that way, but before implying that my argument's veracity, you should get some information about GW.

If you don't have an axe to grind against Games Workshop then your writing style should reflect that. You come off as someone who has an intense dislike for them. It's like GW kicked your dog or something.

You complain that GW doesn't reach out to the widest demographic possible. Well, exactly what is GW's demographic and how wide should it be? Your complaint is meaningless if you don't explain yourself. From what I can remember about the folks who bought GW products at the game store I worked at in Texas, GW customers tended to be young affluent white males aged from adolescence into the late 20s. Of course you recognize this with your "spotty kids" reference. SO what should GW do to expand their demographics? Who should they try to sell their products to?

You condescendingly refer to the loyal fans of GW as being brainwashed.

You complain about GW's profit margin for miniatures even though you don't really know what the profit margin is. You're actually complaining that a company efficiently cuts down cost to maximize profit. This is, just so you know, generally considered to be a good business practice. Unless they're cheating people out of wages, endangering people or something of that nature, then they're not doing anything unethical by having a high profit margin.

You slam the prices of GW products. I have a Blood Dragon Vampire still in its package from 2000 that I bought for $14.99. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics, that comes out to approximately $19.83 in today's money. Looking at GW's website, you can buy a unit of 5 Blood Knights for $99. So per miniature, the Blood Knight costs the same in real money and the new ones look a lot better than the older ones. Is it the same for other GW products? I don't know, I don't have an old GW catalog I can compare prices to. Have you actually compared the price of GW products over the years while taking into account inflation? Your argument might be valid but you didn't do a darn thing to support it.

You say that GW is not a good business. Okay, why not compare them to other businesses that supply a similar product? How's Ral Partha doing these days? Do you see a lot of people playing the Great Rail Wars anywhere? I know, let's play a nice game of Warzone! Just let me run down to the local hobby shop to purchases some Imperial and Bauhaus units!

This isn't to say that there are no valid criticisms of GW as a business. You're just that a lot of your criticisms aren't valid and you fail to back the criticisms you make that might be valid.

 

[MGibster]

Case? What case?

You're joking, right? The case you made for GW being a bad business.

I wasn't intending on convincing anyone. What I wanted is to have dialogue and to get ideas and other opinions going. It has work and, for the most part, it has been a very civilised and rather interesting debate. Mission accomplished!

Really? You write persuasive articles without the intent of convincing anyone of anything? That's just bizarre.

 

[jasper]

solution to your problem.
Since they are public company, buy stock. Enough to change their ways.

 

[mudbunny]

While I can only add anecdotes, the stores in Toronto and Halifax resemble more what you describe than what the OP describes.

The store here in Ottawa (back when it was open) was similar. Very large, brightly lit and when I wandered into it (being all of about 16 and not knowing *anything* about GW, back around 1994), walked out with an invite to the newbie day in two weeks, and about 20 pages of "What is Warhammer?", "What do you need to play?" and other such printouts made by the store. The employees were extremely friendly, even to a complete newb such as myself, who had no idea what miniatures wargaming was.

Plural of anecdote not data...yada yada yada

 

[El Mahdi]

Case? What case?

Applicable definitions excerpted from the Oxford American Dictionary (1980), Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (Tenth Edition - 1995), Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus (1992)

case (kays) n.

1. a set of facts or evidence supporting a conclusion, judgement, or argument, she made a case for keeping her secretary, or (added by me) he made a case why Games Workshop is not a good business.

synonyms: argument, claim, dispute, position

You start out by making a claim: "Why Games Workshop is not a good business." You state your criteria as: "...for the sake of clarity, I will point out that I do not consider profit to be the reflection of good business. Good business, in my book, is when any company makes the most from and for its market, not just its product. Also is when a company reaches to the widest possible demographic successfully." And then restate your claim based on that criteria: "So, as business, is it the best it can?"

You then lay out points and facts (according to your point of view) supporting your argument and position.

You did much more than just state an opinion, you also gave supporting information for why you believe your opinion is correct, and made follow up responses clarifying your position, refuting counter-claims, and correcting what you see as misperceptions. That's making an argument supporting your position (even a civil argument is still an argument).

If your intention was simply to state an opinion, why did you give (anecdotal) evidence supporting your opinion, and feel it important enough to follow up?

That is making a case.

 

[Leviatham]

If you don't have an axe to grind against Games Workshop then your writing style should reflect that. You come off as someone who has an intense dislike for them. It's like GW kicked your dog or something.

I have said several times that I do dislike them a lot. Nothing new there.

You complain that GW doesn't reach out to the widest demographic possible. Well, exactly what is GW's demographic and how wide should it be? Your complaint is meaningless if you don't explain yourself. From what I can remember about the folks who bought GW products at the game store I worked at in Texas, GW customers tended to be young affluent white males aged from adolescence into the late 20s. Of course you recognize this with your "spotty kids" reference. SO what should GW do to expand their demographics? Who should they try to sell their products to?

If the answer to that weren't so obvious I would answer it.

You condescendingly refer to the loyal fans of GW as being brainwashed.

And some act as such.

You complain about GW's profit margin for miniatures even though you don't really know what the profit margin is. You're actually complaining that a company efficiently cuts down cost to maximize profit. This is, just so you know, generally considered to be a good business practice. Unless they're cheating people out of wages, endangering people or something of that nature, then they're not doing anything unethical by having a high profit margin.

Yep. I complain of all that. Just because I doesn't agree with my views of what business should be and because, you know, I can and I am entitled to complain.

You slam the prices of GW products. I have a Blood Dragon Vampire still in its package from 2000 that I bought for $14.99. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics, that comes out to approximately $19.83 in today's money. Looking at GW's website, you can buy a unit of 5 Blood Knights for $99. So per miniature, the Blood Knight costs the same in real money and the new ones look a lot better than the older ones. Is it the same for other GW products? I don't know, I don't have an old GW catalog I can compare prices to. Have you actually compared the price of GW products over the years while taking into account inflation? Your argument might be valid but you didn't do a darn thing to support it.

And you truly believe that $20 of today are as valuable as $15 from 10 years ago? Also, do you really believe that it costs the same to produce? Because I don't.

You say that GW is not a good business. Okay, why not compare them to other businesses that supply a similar product? How's Ral Partha doing these days? Do you see a lot of people playing the Great Rail Wars anywhere? I know, let's play a nice game of Warzone! Just let me run down to the local hobby shop to purchases some Imperial and Bauhaus units!

Actually, GW is not the only company out there who does miniatures. There are companies out there, much smaller, selling much better miniatures at similar prices. I'm sure it wouldn't take you any time at all to find some.

This isn't to say that there are no valid criticisms of GW as a business. You're just that a lot of your criticisms aren't valid and you fail to back the criticisms you make that might be valid.

That's fine. Also, as I have said several times before, I wasn't trying to back anything up, just convey my opinion. I didn't provide any "facts" just observations that are unverifiable. You're welcome to take them or leave them.

Opinions don't have to be substantiated to be valid, or to be expressed. To be allowed and able to express them is our right, though, and I love exercising it.

 

[Leviatham]

Applicable definitions excerpted from the Oxford American Dictionary (1980), Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (Tenth Edition - 1995), Roget's 21st Century Thesaurus (1992)

case (kays) n.

1. a set of facts or evidence supporting a conclusion, judgement, or argument, she made a case for keeping her secretary, or (added by me) he made a case why Games Workshop is not a good business.

You start out by making a claim: "Why Games Workshop is not a good business." You state your criteria as: "...for the sake of clarity, I will point out that I do not consider profit to be the reflection of good business. Good business, in my book, is when any company makes the most from and for its market, not just its product. Also is when a company reaches to the widest possible demographic successfully." And then restate your claim based on that criteria: "So, as business, is it the best it can?"

You then lay out points and facts (according to your point of view) supporting your argument and position.


You did much more than just state an opinion, you also gave supporting information for why you believe your opinion is correct, and made follow up responses clarifying your position, refuting counter-claims, and correcting what you see as misperceptions. That's making an argument supporting your position (even a civil argument is still an argument).

If your intention was simply to state an opinion, why did you give (anecdotal) evidence supporting your opinion, and feel it important enough to follow up?

That is making a case.

Uhmm... I can see why it seems I was making a case. It wasn't my intention or objective, though it seems it comes naturally (if clumsily) to me. Maybe a new talent to explore! I think you've just convinced me to write more articles and post them here! Thank you!

As to why I provided with anecdotes, because otherwise things are lot more boring. Also because that way people who disagree have something to refute, and because is the only thing I have.

You see, I like debate. I like discussing things and talking and hearing opinions and anecdotes from other people. I am not interested in convincing anyone to believe anything else, or to change what they do. I am interested in getting people talking. Opinion pieces like mine do get people talking. They get people thinking. And the conversations are very entertaining too!

If I made my case like you did, without any chance of debate, the fun, the thinking, the communication, would be gone. Making that sort of cases is a waste of time because it only entertains the person making them.

Don't get me wrong, I am not changing my mind about what I wrote. I am trying to explain that I wrote it as I did for a reason, and that reason has worked!

Of course, you're welcome to show me the error of my ways again... I don't mind!