D&D 5E Why Good Players Should Not Play Champions

[AaronOfBarbaria]

I know it's probably a just me thing, but I really wish people would stop making statements like this. A champion is not useless. I don't think hyperbole like that helps a discussion.

It's not just you. I too wish that people would remember that there is an important, and severe, difference between "I'd rather something else than that" and "that's useless" or between "I don't like it" and "It's awful."

It would greatly improve the chances that a conversation resulted in something productive if that difference weren't overlooked by so much hyperbolic statement of opinion as fact.

 

[Satyrn]

My main contention is that champion is useless before remarkable athlete,

I know it's probably a just me thing, but I really wish people would stop making statements like this. A champion is not useless. I don't think hyperbole like that helps a discussion.

I don't know. I'm curious about how a +2 bonus to some skill checks elevates a character out of uselessness.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't know if there is an outright bad class.

I've heard some not-so-good things about the Beastmaster, but I haven't seen it in action because my table has a longstanding, "No pets" policy.

Elemental Monk as well perhaps.

The basic fighter chassis is fairly good though sho short of outright making some bad decisions (12 strength/dex) you should be alright. Not every class has that though.

 

[ccs]

I don't know. I'm curious about how a +2 bonus to some skill checks elevates a character out of uselessness.

Likewise.
I actually had to pull the book out & re-read Remarkable Athlete. My response was: "?? If Bid thought the champion was useless before, how would this save it?"

 

[bid]

I know it's probably a just me thing, but I really wish people would stop making statements like this. A champion is not useless. I don't think hyperbole like that helps a discussion.

What use can you make out of champion archetype early features?
Improved critical is purely mechanical, and BM offers better damage and better control.
There's no reason to pick champion over BM/EK. There's no use for its features.

Since there's nothing to gain from them and you'd better use another archetype, calling it useless is more factual than hyperbole.


I have no problem with refusing to meta and picking a bad choice on purpose. You can gain more advantage for roleplaying into combat the right way than roll-playing yourself out of it. But improved critical is a shiny bauble of no value.

 

[Sacrosanct]

What use can you make out of champion archetype early features?
Improved critical is purely mechanical, and BM offers better damage and better control.
There's no reason to pick champion over BM/EK. There's no use for its features.

Since there's nothing to gain from them and you'd better use another archetype, calling it useless is more factual than hyperbole.


I have no problem with refusing to meta and picking a bad choice on purpose. You can gain more advantage for roleplaying into combat the right way than roll-playing yourself out of it. But improved critical is a shiny bauble of no value.

LOL. OK. I'm so tired of having this discussion, I'm not even gonna try. Because if you literally think that's a useless subclass, then we're SO FAR OFF there would be no point.

 

[BookBarbarian]

useless.

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

 

[AaronOfBarbaria]

There's no reason to pick champion over BM/EK.

False.

There's no use for its features.

Also false.

That you don't have a reason to pick a champion over a battle master or eldritch knight does not mean that no one does. I, as an example, have the reason of "I want to track as few resources as possible."

Simlarly, that you don't have a use for a feature does not mean no one does. I, example again, use Improved Critical to score 3-4 more (putting my average at about 8) critical hits per session (achieved by making a large number of attack rolls, and capitalizing on any opportunity to attack with advantage).

 

[bid]

LOL. OK. I'm so tired of having this discussion, I'm not even gonna try. Because if you literally think that's a useless subclass, then we're SO FAR OFF there would be no point.

Well then, it should be easy to point a few things I missed that gives champion a use that BM cannot cover.

 

[Sunseeker]

Champions are great, they're the best, I mean they're just yuuge!

Seriously, I like Champions and even without decking them out with extra feats and certain class options, I find they are a very solid class for anyone who dislikes complexity and has no interest in utility. The Champion does two things: hits hard and hits often. Yes they have to wait a while for their level 11 feature to start putting them ahead of smite damage and rages, but the Champion is the Energizer Bunny of classes, it just keeps going and going and going.....