'Why I hate 'Lord of the Rings' '

[John Crichton]

Unless I'm not remembering correctly, these plot twists are taken directly from the books. How is this a problem with the films?

I guess he has a problem with both.

 

[Nightfall]

Apparently so. Now me I've READ the books like many of you. Hell when I first heard that they were going to do a live action movie on the trilogy I was like most, skeptical and unbelieving. Then I saw the Fellowship. It wasn't perfect, it wasn't visionary. But it WAS great, inspiring and felt like "THIS is the version of Tolkien that some read to me!" It was indeed listening to a great storyteller tell a classic in his own sense of self. You felt. You saw. You believed. And while it wasn't faithful to every element of Tolkien's Middle Earth, it was STILL Middle Earth. And while the Two Towers had some troubles, I felt it was still Middle Earth. And I'm sure I'll feel the same way with Return of the King. My point is this: Give me THESE movies any day of the week than some crappy cop drama that I can predict any day. I may have known the book, but I felt the joy again from when I first read the series.

 

[Psion]

LOTR was one of my primary adolescent obsessions.

Problem identified. LotR purist.

We've all heard this before. We even have native versions of him.

Later, Elrond, a powerful elf, and Isuldir, the man who gained possession of the Ring, stand before a fissure in Mount Doom, the only place it can be destroyed. At the last moment, Isuldur refuses to toss it in -- and Elrond lets him walk.

Oh yes, because we know that at all junctures in history, all people do the EXACT right thing. That is SUUUUCH a plot hole.

Yes, that is me mocking.

Let's just say I think if you are going to poke some holes in the logic of a movie, you have to display some yourself.

 

[Storm Raven]

Yeah, but he says he will stick to criticizing the movies:

but then complains:

Even Gandalf’s supposed death at the hands of the Balrog, a winged yet surprisingly flightless demon, is lessened when he returns in “The Two Towers,” proclaiming, “I was sent back.” That’s a convention known as deux ex machina, or hand of god, and I wish it would’ve sent me back home.

Which is an odd criticism at any level, since Gandalf was essentially sent back by God. Complaining about the hand of God being involved when the hand of God is supposed to have been involved in a situation is plain silly.

It also shows that despite his professed love of the books, he just didn't understand what he was reading.

Unless I'm not remembering correctly, these plot twists are taken directly from the books. How is this a problem with the films?

Yes. The "problems" he identifies are drawn directly from the books. His "problems" with them appear to stem from an abject lack of understanding of the books though.

 

[Storm Raven]

Well, IMO he does have a point about Islidur and Elrond inside Mt. Doom. Why did'nt Elrond just get a running start and push Him in? Thats the one big mistake the movie makes. Because it was inside the volcano and he could have done something right there, but it was Elronds fault that the ring survived, and he let evil survive as well. I heard in the books, the scene takes place outside the volcano.

He only has a point if you fail to understand the nature of the Ring and morality in Middle Earth. Isildur claimed the Ring as weregeld for the death of his father: payment for the loss of a loved one from the offender. That means that the Ring was justly his. Elrond could not try to take it away from Isildur without being guilty of an evil act. He could try to persuade Isildur to voluntarily give it up, but to take it by force, or force him to give it up against his will, would corrupt Elrond in the attempt.

And once Elrond had become corrupted, the Ring would use that wedge to fill Elrond with a desire for the Ring himself. Trying to "flying drop kick" Isildur into the lava would fill Elrond with a desire for the Ring before he could complete the attempt, and he would be driven to seize it for himself rather than destroy it. No matter your original intentions, to take the Ring by force gives it a wedge into your soul and allows it to corrupt you into desiring its power.

 

[clark411]

Storm Raven's dead on.

Tolkien is very much about walking the fine line. Hobbikses seem to have an easier time of it due to their lack of perspective (and being as tough as old tree roots as well in their corruptability stat).

Beyond this, primary characters in Tolkien tend to make mistakes that matter- something pretty odd in much of modern heroic super fantasy. Classical characters aren't infallible- they screw up. Gandalf takes years upon years to spot the Ring. He lets a young Hobbit who knows nothing of Moria decide their fate in the Mountains. The Elves and Humans let Mordor mass an army 20,000 strong AND let them sally forth before they get in gear.

I'm amazed at any critic who would assume that Tolkien's work is flawed for following such a theme. What exactly does it take to qualify as a critic these days? A working knowledge of the entire run of MST3K?

 

[Welverin]

What exactly does it take to qualify as a critic these days? A working knowledge of the entire run of MST3K?

At least that would show some taste.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

At least that would show some taste.

And some entertainment.

Trying to "flying drop kick" Isildur into the lava...

That is the funniest mental image I've had in a long time. A real Smith meets Elrond moment.

 

[Buttercup]

[/b]And once Elrond had become corrupted, the Ring would use that wedge to fill Elrond with a desire for the Ring himself. Trying to "flying drop kick" Isildur into the lava would fill Elrond with a desire for the Ring before he could complete the attempt, and he would be driven to seize it for himself rather than destroy it. No matter your original intentions, to take the Ring by force gives it a wedge into your soul and allows it to corrupt you into desiring its power.

Aye, and since Elrond wields one of The Three, this would be an unmitigated disaster. He would have a leg up on power, so to speak, just as Galadriel or Gandalf would. And he knows who wields the other two. Bad. Very bad.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Ok, so Elrond sees him walking away with the Ring, then realizes that Isildur is going to keep it. He knows it must be destroyed, but if he goes to stab Isildur through the back then push him in the lava he's going to be corrupted by the ring and want it, even though he's pushing a man into lava to destroy it and hasn't touched it? Why wasn't he corruped with lust for the ring while he was leading him into the heart of the volcano?

I don't buy that. Me and everyone were talking about that right after the movie, why didn't Elrond take care of buisness? Is was obvious that Isildur was a slave to the ring the moment he touched it, Elrond should have done something, and since he didn't he is partially responsible for Sauron's evil living on.