'Why I hate 'Lord of the Rings' '

[KenM]

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Elrond could not try to take it away from Isildur without being guilty of an evil act. He could try to persuade Isildur to voluntarily give it up, but to take it by force, or force him to give it up against his will, would corrupt Elrond in the attempt.

I never said anything about Elrond taking the ring from Isildur. All Elrond had to do was push Isildur over the edge, into the lava, He does not even have to touch the ring. They were right there, inside Mt. Doom. If Elrond knew how corrupting and evil the ring was, He should have done something, but He let him walk away.

 

[WizarDru]

I don't buy that. Me and everyone were talking about that right after the movie, why didn't Elrond take care of buisness? Is was obvious that Isildur was a slave to the ring the moment he touched it, Elrond should have done something, and since he didn't he is partially responsible for Sauron's evil living on.

Well, Isildur never actually used the ring for evil, so perhaps Elrond thought he'd find a way, once he got the help of the other bearers of the three rings. Remember, Isildur was pretty powerful, in his own right.

Ignoring that, however, we have plenty of reasons right in the film to dictate that behavior. We see Gandalf reach for the ring, clearly tempted for a moment...and he resists. Elrond never touched the ring, presumably for the same reason. Moreover, we see several instances where the ring clouds the thoughts of those near it, particularly when they become violent or angry. Boromir loses control of himself temporarily, when his emotions overcome him, and the ring twist him. He regrets it later, but during the event, he isn't aware of it. Aragorn considers it, as well, when Frodo leaves the fellowship. Galadriel makes it clear that if she dared take the ring, she'd lose all sense of self, and from both her and Gandalf's reactions, it would happen almost instantaneously.

Elrond clearly knew the risk involved, and knew what would happen if Isildur fought him for the ring. It could have gone very badly, very quickly. Was it a potential mistake? Sure. But hindsight is always 20/20. And from the context of the films, Elrond needs to be pushed in to doing much of anything other than shutting down Rivendell and shuffling his people to the Grey Havens, his only real concern. The second two films only reinforce all these themes.

There's nothing wrong with someone disliking the films for any number of reasons. I think he chose some poorly thought out arguments, myself (as there are better ones to make), but to each his own.

 

[Buttercup]

I never said anything about Elrond taking the ring from Isildur. All Elrond had to do was push Isildur over the edge, into the lava, He does not even have to touch the ring. They were right there, inside Mt. Doom. If Elrond knew how corrupting and evil the ring was, He should have done something, but He let him walk away.

Oh, I don't disagree with you. I think it's problematic myself. I was just trying to come up with a way that this could have happened without Elrond being a coward or a slacker.

 

[Storm Raven]

I never said anything about Elrond taking the ring from Isildur. All Elrond had to do was push Isildur over the edge, into the lava, He does not even have to touch the ring. They were right there, inside Mt. Doom. If Elrond knew how corrupting and evil the ring was, He should have done something, but He let him walk away.

Pushing Isildur into the lava would have been murder. That's evil, a mortal sin in fact. Forming the intent to do that in close proximity to the Ring would have corrupted Elrond. It would have then transformed the corruption in his heart worked by his desire to commit murder into a desire for the power of the Ring.

You don't have to touch the Ring for its power to work upon you. It corrupted Boromir and he saw it once and never held it. The Ring corrupts those who would do evil, even if they don't know what they are doing is evil (Boromir, for example, thought that he would be doing good by using the Ring for the defense of Gondor).

Elrond forming the intent to commit murder in the proximity of the Ring would have been enough to corrupt him and bring him under its power.

Finally, note that I included both Elrond taking the Ring, and forcing Isildur to give it up. Forcing Isildur to give the Ring up against his will (which includes, murdering Isildur) was included in my initial answer.

 

[Storm Raven]

Ok, so Elrond sees him walking away with the Ring, then realizes that Isildur is going to keep it. He knows it must be destroyed, but if he goes to stab Isildur through the back then push him in the lava he's going to be corrupted by the ring and want it, even though he's pushing a man into lava to destroy it and hasn't touched it? Why wasn't he corruped with lust for the ring while he was leading him into the heart of the volcano?

Forming the intent to commit an evil act (such as murder), in the presence of the Ring corrupts those who do so. Simply leading Isildur inside Mount Doom is not in and of itself an evil act. While the Ring will still corrupt by its presence even if you avoid doing evil things, its power will work on you more slowly. Let me reiterate this: you don't have to touch the Ring for it to work its corrupting influence upon you. But if you do something evil while using it, or while near it, its power to corrupt is magnified tremendously, and will consume you immediately.

Further, it is made clear in the books that the more powerful you are, the more corrupting the Ring is for you. Elrond was one of the most powerful individuals alive in Middle Earth during the time of the Last Alliance (superseded only by Cirdan, Galadriel, Gil-Gilad, Sauron, and Elendil, and maybe Thingol and Celeborn). For him, the Ring is especially corrupting. Deciding to actually murder Isildur while within the presence of the Ring would have been all the wedge the corrupting power of the Ring would have needed to overwhelm Elrond.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Elrond was one of the most powerful individuals alive in Middle Earth during the time of the Last Alliance (superseded only by Cirdan, Galadriel, Gil-Gilad, Sauron, and Elendil, and maybe Thingol and Celeborn).

Thingol had been dead for centuries at the time of the Last Alliance. Maybe you're thinking of Thranduil?

 

[Salthanas]

I think that if Elrond had decided to kill Isildur in order to destory the ring he probably would have ended up killing him and keeping the Ring himself. Contemplating such an act would have made him very vulnerable to the Rings influence and would probably result in him taking action that does not actually result in the Rings destruction.

Anyway the most obvious reason I can think of that he does'nt simply stab him in the back is that they are friends. I think most people would find it hard to stab a friend in the back or push him to his doom particularly if that friend in question is one you have fought alongside with ,even moreso if that friend happens to be the King of Gondor who just happens to have a massive army camped below you

 

[KenM]

Pushing Isildur into the lava would have been murder. That's evil, a mortal sin in fact.

One of the themes of LotR is sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Elrond pushes Islidur into the lava, the ring is destroyed. Elround walks out of the crack of doom and says that Islidur sacrificed Himself to save all of Middle Earth. End of problem
BTW, in the movies, Boromir accually saw the ring twice in FoTR movie, once at the concil, and when they are going up the mountin and Frodo falls, Boromir picks up the chain with the ring on it.

 

[Storm Raven]

Thingol had been dead for centuries at the time of the Last Alliance. Maybe you're thinking of Thranduil?

Yeah. I got my elvish kings mixed up there.

 

[Storm Raven]

One of the themes of LotR is sacrifices must be made for the greater good. Elrond pushes Islidur into the lava, the ring is destroyed. Elround walks out of the crack of doom and says that Islidur sacrificed Himself to save all of Middle Earth. End of problem.

Self-sacrifice. But pushing someone else into a pit of lava isn't sacrifice. It is murder. Whether or not Elrond could convince the armies of elves and men who survived the Last Alliance that Isildur had "sacrificed" for the cause, that doesn't change the fact that killing Isildur would have been murder.

The fact that gollum convinced himself that Deagol stole the ring from him and he had every right to kill Deagol to "take it back" doesn't change the fact that Smeagol murdered Deagol. It is the intent that counts, not the end result.

You are trying to make an "ends justifies the means" argument in favor of Elrond pushing Isildur into Mount Doom's fire. But that doesn't work in Tolkien. Means matter. Evil means lead inevitably to evil ends. Committing murder to try to destroy the Ring would result in being corrupted by and dominated by the Ring.

BTW, in the movies, Boromir accually saw the ring twice in FoTR movie, once at the concil, and when they are going up the mountain and Frodo falls, Boromir picks up the chain with the ring on it.

The "Frodo falling" scene is Jackson's invention. Since we are talking about Tolkien's narrative as much as Jackson's, the fact that Boromir only saw it at the Council is relevant. But even still. Whether he saw it once or twice, the Ring works its power on Boromir despite being separated from it most of the time. The Ring corrupts, even if you don't touch it. In the movies, Aragorn is tempted by it, and he never touches the thing.