Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[Tatsukun]

Well, if you want expensive, try a Tokyo LGS. Now you are talking $50 for the PHB and $65 for the DMG. Ouch.

The way I see it, the FLGS is becoming a thing of the past. To stay ‘alive’ it has to change. The ones that can’t change will shut down.

(Ok, here’s one of those (in)famous Tatsukun analogies)

Imagine you had a wheel-smith shop, and you specialized in big wagon wheels. You would do fine in the ‘old west’. But, then imagine that people started driving cars. What would you do?

It seems some people want to demand that every car have at least one wagon wheel to ‘save the dying industry’. I, however, think that’s silly.

The wheel-smith has got to learn to make something for cars, or he has got to change in some way to stay alive.

---

Ok, so how can the FLGS stay alive when online places are better, cheaper, faster, and more convenient? One in Tokyo has stopped selling books and started renting out booths to gamers. They even have coffee. Think of it like a DnD café. Another shop might feature better service / help.

These aren't not the only ways, there are millions of ways. But, simply clinging to the now obsolete business model doesn’t work, and shouldn’t work.

It’s time for the FLGS to die out it all it’s doing is offering overpriced stuff to a formerly cornered niche market.

-Tatsu

 

[bolen]

News Flash! Gamer displays behavior lacking in social development, choosing instead to pursue instant gratification! In other news, water is wet.


Not much point in getting worked up about it, really.

Point taken

 

[amazingshafeman]

I do agree that those who don't play in-store have less incentive to shop there. However, if you're jeopardizing companies that provide material you want, wouldn't it be in your best interests to attempt to preserve those companies? Particularly over relatively small amounts of money (typically no more than $15/month)?

I fully agree, if $15/month is indeed a small amount to you. However, when that same amount represents 3 hours of labor helping rude mall kids find the latest gothic trends so they will look like everyone else trying NOT to look like everyone else, the plight of the the LGS and the mid tier companies is significantly less important.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The old-west wheel-smith needs only learn how to make a different kind of wheel. What he can't do is compete with the mass-production of car wheels on an even basis. Instead, he has to make custom chromes & spinners.

But we're not talking about the craftsmen- we're talking about the places where products may be sold.

What people forget is that a small business or a co-op (even a big one), simply doesn't have the economic clout that a multi-state or international corporation does. Why? Because they can cross-subsidize with other products. They can sell a product below cost indefinitely by raising the cost on something else they sell. Its a practice called "predatory pricing." They also purchase products at volumes orders of magnitude beyond their tiny competitors...and can shift that inventory from store to store effortlessly while still maintaining that same predatory price. For an example of the extreme power of a huge corporation, you can look at what General Motors does: they order in bulk, often paying only a penny (or less!) above cost for supplies and materials- and then they often pay their debt 15-30 days LATE. For GM's suppliers, its like being an addict- they can't get out of the harmful relationship because they have nobody else to sell to, and any complaint gets them cut off. Catch-22.

Other examples:

There used to be a HUGE local book store chain in the D/FW Metroplex called Taylors. If they didn't have it, they got it for you. Even obscure stuff. Then B&N and Borders came through, undercut Taylors and drove it out of business. The new guys do have fancy coffee and some service, but its NOT Taylors quality service.

A similar story happened to most of the small record shops in the area. Because of wave after wave of "big box" (and now internet) retailers selling music at or below cost, its now next to impossible to buy a lot of the old, obscure punk, classic rock, classical, reggae, etc. WITHOUT going online. That also means that there's no knowledgeable employees to talk to who might know about a brilliant piece of music that would otherwise never show up on your radar.

Wal-Mart will actually overbuild stores in an area to bankrupt the competition, then close their excess capacity once they have the monopoly. Some small to middle sized towns have actually lost their entire downtown retail areas to Wal-Marts.

I don't know about other people on this board, but I was an Army Brat who moved every 2-3 years as a kid, and my post-HS studies have taken place in 3 different cities. How did I find new games to join? Not in big retailers, nor online, but in game stores. When you support your local stores, you're not just supporting the owner/operator, you're supporting the subculture. So, whenever possible, I pay that premium to support my local game stores, music shops, even farmers- without regrets.

 

[Silver Moon]

Most of the area FLGS around these parts have only been able to stay in business during the last five years by diversifying. This isn't just my personal opinion, my upstairs tenant is a manager at two of them. Even branching out into sports cards, comic books, toys, used paperback books and off-site collectable shows hasn't done much more than prolong a dying market.

These stores make very low margins. I get a 10% discount - sure, I could buy cheaper elsewhere, but I want to keep my store in business. Why? Well, one reason as stated above is that they carry niche products that others won't Another, the owner knows me, he knows what I am interested in. If something comes by that is popular he will hold it for me before he sells out even if it means he might miss an otherwise guaranteed sale. Customer Service is what this is all about.

 

[smootrk]

What people forget is that a small business or a co-op (even a big one), simply doesn't have the economic clout that a multi-state or international corporation does. Why? Because they can cross-subsidize with other products. They can sell a product below cost indefinitely by raising the cost on something else they sell. Its a practice called "predatory pricing." They also purchase products at volumes orders of magnitude beyond their tiny competitors...and can shift that inventory from store to store effortlessly while still maintaining that same predatory price. For an example of the extreme power of a huge corporation, you can look at what General Motors does: they order in bulk, often paying only a penny (or less!) above cost for supplies and materials- and then they often pay their debt 15-30 days LATE. For GM's suppliers, its like being an addict- they can't get out of the harmful relationship because they have nobody else to sell to, and any complaint gets them cut off. Catch-22.

Other examples:

There used to be a HUGE local book store chain in the D/FW Metroplex called Taylors. If they didn't have it, they got it for you. Even obscure stuff. Then B&N and Borders came through, undercut Taylors and drove it out of business. The new guys do have fancy coffee and some service, but its NOT Taylors quality service.

A similar story happened to most of the small record shops in the area. Because of wave after wave of "big box" (and now internet) retailers selling music at or below cost, its now next to impossible to buy a lot of the old, obscure punk, classic rock, classical, reggae, etc. WITHOUT going online. That also means that there's no knowledgeable employees to talk to who might know about a brilliant piece of music that would otherwise never show up on your radar.

Wal-Mart will actually overbuild stores in an area to bankrupt the competition, then close their excess capacity once they have the monopoly. Some small to middle sized towns have actually lost their entire downtown retail areas to Wal-Marts.

I don't know about other people on this board, but I was an Army Brat who moved every 2-3 years as a kid, and my post-HS studies have taken place in 3 different cities. How did I find new games to join? Not in big retailers, nor online, but in game stores. When you support your local stores, you're not just supporting the owner/operator, you're supporting the subculture. So, whenever possible, I pay that premium to support my local game stores, music shops, even farmers- without regrets.

I agree with your examples. Big business is cruel and efficient. That is why the small fry stores need to be very creative, use all the resources and ideas that they can possibly come up with, and not rely on 'hand outs' from the kind.
Big business excels because they do all the smart things... Volume Buying, market analysis, advertising, and coming up with new and cross-product developments.
The small fry has to do more than provide a back room for kids to play pokemon in.

I like the coffee idea. Wish my LGS had good coffee on par with Starbucks. That would get me there more often for sure.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

>>I think that the industry is going to lose the FLGS, and move more towards the Netflix model (not rentals, obviously, but direct-to-consumer via the internet). You're starting to see this with RPGNow....publishers can make more profits selling directly to the consumer, and now that they offer physical books as well as PDF, that's only going to expand.

It doesn't really solve the problem of the loss of the social cornerstone represented by the FLGS (place to play, meet other gamers, etc.), but economically, I think in the long run, producers will be a lot better off. <<

Agreed. I just looked at most of my RPG purchases over the past few months and 90% of them have been PDF's from DrivethruRPG and RPGnow.com. I'm one of those who dont frequent his LGS anymore, partially because I dont particularly care for the owner but partially because I can find the books that I want elsewhere cheaper. I dont game at the LGS I play in my house, they provide no other service other than to provide me with product and if I can find that product cheaper elsewhere so be it.

I'm reading some of these posts and watching some of these posters catch heat for doing what benefits them financially and I can't help but wonder if these same posters would b like this face to face. I'm 33 so I remember a time where, the only place to get RPG's were from places like Complete Stratigist and I've never met any of my many RPG players there. Most of the people I've gamed with were people I met in school or people I've introduced to gaming. Seriously, the RPG circle may get smaller but It will NEVER DIE, it survived video games, it'll survive LGS death. I'm a big supporter of Green Ronin and Necromancer Games as well as Phil Reed's stuff (The Campaign Planners are frickin' awesome) and I believe that they would find away to get thier product to people LGS or not.

So in the end, my LGS does nothing for me other than supply product. If Ican find it cheaper elsewhere I will. I dont mind waiting for it from Amazon or using a 30% coupon from Borders or ordering from FRPGames or using ebay. If I dont have a problem with it (especially since it's MY hard earned money that I'M spending) no one else should.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

That extra-expensive coffee is one of the products that lets B&N and Borders subsidize sale/predatory prices on other goods...

You might also note that B&N and Borders also occasionally charge different prices online than they do in the stores...for products stored in the same warehouses. The only difference between your online purchase and your store purchase is where the product gets shipped.

But I'm not so sure the FLGS needs to do something else besides provide a game room...they just need to leverage it differently.

One of the best products to sell, at least from a pure marketing standpoint, is an addictive drug. How does one sell it? Give out a free sample- you'll make your cost of giving out the sample back within a couple of purchases, and you're virtually assured of a "lifetime" customer.

Those game stores that have game rooms need to use them not just as hang-outs, but also as product-demonstration areas. Lets have a show of hands- how many people have bought a game product after trying it out or seeing it played in a demo of some kind? (Raises hand) Those FLGS' that don't have a game room should consider getting one.

Why?

Did anyone here participate in Borders' D&D 30th Aniversary celebration (or whatever it was) night? I didn't- I had a prior committment- but there were many who did. Instead of seeing a band playing in the coffee-shop, you got to see gamers... And yes, Borders DID sell product that night- mostly overpriced sweets & coffee bevereges, but also game books.

Was it better for them than hosting a mini-concert? I don't know (I tend to doubt it), but I can't get a straight answer from them on what kind of deal they make with those bands when they operate as a concert venue (they don't want any of the artists I represent).

But concerts tours on that scale are rare. They can host small events like D&D night anytime they want.

 

[amazingshafeman]

Does anyone else think the coffee at B&N (and Starbucks in general) tastes burned? I remember as a teen, my parents sent coffee back if it tasted like that in a truckstop. Now you add some floofy steamed milk and it costs four times more...

Sorry for the derail.

 

[reveal]

Does anyone else think the coffee at B&N (and Starbucks in general) tastes burned? I remember as a teen, my parents sent coffee back if it tasted like that in a truckstop. Now you add some floofy steamed milk and it costs four times more...

Sorry for the derail.

I think it depends on the store and who makes it, rather than the coffee. In Omaha, I can only get good "non-burnt" tasting coffee at one place and it's local. Here in Council Bluffs, right across the Missouri river from Omaha, I can only get it at two places; a local coffee shop and Barnes & Noble.