Why I refuse to support my FLGS

[PJ-Mason]

The best way I've found to save money AND support LGS's (only the good ones!) is not to have the LGS's form co-ops- even then, they can't compete with the big retailers- but to have GAMERS form co-ops. Instead of EVERYONE buying their own Core books to every game system the group plays, everyone in the group pitches in to buy a set (possibly with an extra PHB or 2). Deserving LGS's keep their doors open, and gamers without money still have access to everything they need.

Interesting theory. But how does it translate into more books sold for the FLGS? Instead of buying a PHB, they buy another book.

Sometimes i think the FLGS of the future won't even be a gamer's prime source for game books (if a source at all!). Like others have said it could be more of an environmental or ambiance refuge for gamers. Few gamers have their house set up to look like a dungeon or the bridge of a starship. They might well pay for someone else to do it for them and keep them in munchies.

 

[rgard]

Thats my point, though. It will change how a lot of publishers craft their business model, but it isn't going to kill the paper and pencil industry. Evolution of society is the only thing thats going kill the P&P industry and thats somewhere in the future.

I think small publishers have either already crafted a business model that lets them survive alongside the big boys and high volume requirements or at least they acknowledge that they are "rolling the dice" and that bankruptcy is a possibility thats only a moment away. That will not likely change no matter what happens in the nidustry. Thats a universal business truth. A lot of small publishers will go online or skip the middle men (in fact a lot of them already do). Remember, a game publisher could skip the distribution and LGSs, mark up their prices to increase their current profit rates and still give the customers a cheaper product, or have less volume concerns and charge the current rates. A lot of them don't do it out of good will support for distributors and LGSs, not because they'll fall apart if they do (though some think they will). Escpecially the small ones.

Btw, i hope you are not taking this personal. If you run your GS as friendly, informative place that has room for gaming and all the other things that make a great FLGS what it is supposed to be, than i am all for you staying in business and the local gamers keeping you that way. Truly i am.

Gee thanks! No seriously, not taken personally. I even re-wrote my opening sentence of the post so I didn't sound annoyed.

That said, I don't share your optimism as to the RPG pen and paper games surviving the demise of the current major distribution system for the games.

Then again, maybe we can survive just with WotC rpg products. 'We' meaning gamers, not the FLGS owners. I'll survive on minis (Star Wars, D&D, 40K and the like) as a FLGS owner. You can't run a 40k tournament at your on-line distributor's warehouse.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[ThirdWizard]

The most successful LGS I go to makes most of its money off of RC Cars. They also sell weapons, board games, Magic: the Gathering, and other various side things. There's another LGS that I would call more "friendly" which has comic books, several tournaments a week (D&D Minis, Star Wars Minis, Warhammer, Warmachine, M:tG, etc), and sells the things for those tournaments. Both stores have large sections where people can come and play various games as well as battlemats you can use (nice ones, too). I like going to these places, so I consider buying from them an investment in keeping something that I like.

Diversification is important to staying in business. The first store makes a lot of money, not from D&D, but a bit from M:tG and mostly from its RC Cars and Warhammer. The second makes enough to get by because of its tournaments, which encourage lots of buys to participate in them. Neither of them make most of their money from roleplaying products. I don't think its my job to keep them in business, its their job to make me want to buy things from them. And, they do this; I havn't bought a book over the internet in over a year.

 

[PJ-Mason]

Gee thanks! No seriously, not taken personally. I even re-wrote my opening sentence of the post so I didn't sound annoyed.

That said, I don't share your optimism as to the RPG pen and paper games surviving the demise of the current major distribution system for the games.

Then again, maybe we can survive just with WotC rpg products. 'We' meaning gamers, not the FLGS owners. I'll survive on minis (Star Wars, D&D, 40K and the like) as a FLGS owner. You can't run a 40k tournament at your on-line distributor's warehouse.

Thanks,
Rich

Well, i hope i am wrong about the future of LGSs, in regards to rpg business. (at least for you good ones out there).

My LGS owner has definitely latched onto the wonders of selling and catering to the minature and card gamers. To the detriment of his RPG business, unfortunately. But thats the way it goes.

PS: You can refute the JEDI dogma and still avoid being a dark Jedi. I did. Don't let the council tell you differently!!

 

[rgard]

The most successful LGS I go to makes most of its money off of RC Cars. They also sell weapons, board games, Magic: the Gathering, and other various side things. There's another LGS that I would call more "friendly" which has comic books, several tournaments a week (D&D Minis, Star Wars Minis, Warhammer, Warmachine, M:tG, etc), and sells the things for those tournaments. Both stores have large sections where people can come and play various games as well as battlemats you can use (nice ones, too). I like going to these places, so I consider buying from them an investment in keeping something that I like.

Diversification is important to staying in business. The first store makes a lot of money, not from D&D, but a bit from M:tG and mostly from its RC Cars and Warhammer. The second makes enough to get by because of its tournaments, which encourage lots of buys to participate in them. Neither of them make most of their money from roleplaying products. I don't think its my job to keep them in business, its their job to make me want to buy things from them. And, they do this; I havn't bought a book over the internet in over a year.

That's interesting about the R/C car sales. I was talking to another FLGS (I'd call it Friendly, but I have a high tolerance for pain) owner and he got out of the R/C business due to theft. I must have looked sceptical when he said that, because he went on to explain that the people shoplifting the R/C stuff were grown ups...guys in their 30s and 40s.

Still shake my head at that revelation.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[ThirdWizard]

That's interesting about the R/C car sales. I was talking to another FLGS (I'd call it Friendly, but I have a high tolerance for pain) owner and he got out of the R/C business due to theft. I must have looked sceptical when he said that, because he went on to explain that the people shoplifting the R/C stuff were grown ups...guys in their 30s and 40s.

Still shake my head at that revelation.

Wow... just... wow... Thankfully, we've had no problems with theft at either shop, and I've noticed it would be extremely easy to steal from the second shop. The RPG products are right at the door and it would be very easy to distract the one person at the register.

I forgot, the second store also sells anime, though pretty slowly. Neither store has bargain bins, though. I would love that. I've never actually seen any LGS with a bargain bin!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Interesting theory. But how does it translate into more books sold for the FLGS? Instead of buying a PHB, they buy another book.

We'll, obviously the gamer co-op could still buy stuff online- I was, unfortunately, not entirely clear in making my point.

The point was that if gamers wanted to support their LGS but were short on dough, then pooling THEIR money for the purchase of stuff from the LGS keeps the gamers supplied with product and the LGS stays in business. They make the sale of the PHB rather than the online shop, and every sale helps. On the flipside, the gamers who pool their resources have greater buying power because they make fewer duplicate purchases.

As I mentioned before, I supply a LOT of product for my group. Functionally, I AM a gamer co-op. As a result, some of the people in the group spend ZERO money on RPGs, and still get to play. I've got versions of D&D going back to the mid-1970's to current; all 5 versions of HERO, and another 30+ RPGs on my shelves, so choice is seldom a problem. (Its largely wasted on my current group, however...3Ed D&D is the only game we play right now.)

 

[PJ-Mason]

The point was that if gamers wanted to support their LGS but were short on dough, then pooling THEIR money for the purchase of stuff from the LGS keeps the gamers supplied with product and the LGS stays in business. They make the sale of the PHB rather than the online shop, and every sale helps. On the flipside, the gamers who pool their resources have greater buying power because they make fewer duplicate purchases.

Oh, i get it. If you could get all the group on the same page, that could help out both the gamers and the LGS some. If you had one dm that everyone trusted to keep the books, that could work out. Probably not well for most groups though. But if you had the right group, that could be a cool solution.

(Its largely wasted on my current group, however...3Ed D&D is the only game we play right now.)

*Sigh* I feel your pain. My last group was like that. I'm OD'ed on D&D right now, let me tell you. I'm real thankful for my new group, though.

 

[rgard]

Well, i hope i am wrong about the future of LGSs, in regards to rpg business. (at least for you good ones out there).

My LGS owner has definitely latched onto the wonders of selling and catering to the minature and card gamers. To the detriment of his RPG business, unfortunately. But thats the way it goes.

PS: You can refute the JEDI dogma and still avoid being a dark Jedi. I did. Don't let the council tell you differently!!

We have a Star Wars campaign running and another customer is starting up a D&D campaign. To be honest, the Star Wars campaign hasn't really helped the RPG sales...it helped the minis sales (I sell the minis singly as well.)

The minis (SW, D&D, WH, WH40k and Heroclix) make up 50% of my sales. MtG and Yu Gi Oh are about 20%. Board games (Risk Godstorm, Axis and Allies and the like) are 15%. The WotC D20 and Mongoose D20, Green Ronin products are 10% of the sales.

I make sure I have at least two of every WotC product on the shelf with a decent selection of Mongoose and other D20 publishers.

That leaves the remaining 5% to soda pop and non-WotC/Mongoose/Green Ronin rpgs.

I have sold exactly 3 non-D20 books so far. One WoD book and 2 of the new Warhammmer Fantasy Roleplaying books.

I'm not counting all the 40k codices and WH army books and lump them in with the minis sales (where they belong.)

I didn't leave any major RPG system out of my original start up stock for the store. So I think I gave these a fair shot. The RPG stuff just doesn't sell as well as the rest of the items.

I'm fairly confident that I will be selling off the non-D20 stuff in about 8 months (to avoid the aforemented tax on old stock.) As a resutlt I will be very leary of stocking any non-d20 rpg products.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Darmanicus]

So I wanted to buy the game Attack! and checked out my FLGS. They had it for $39.99 (US funds).

Then I went to Toys R Us. They also had Attack!. For $13.99.

FLGS, piss off.

***
Side rant: What's all this nonsense about "supporting" our FLGS, anyway? What are they, charities? Support, my ass. If I want to give "support" to something it will be my family, my friends, my church, my co-workers, or my local charities. Dear FLGS, you're a *business*, for frick's sake. Support *yourself* and stop whining. And while you're at it, stop jacking up the price of Attack! and other games.

Look at it from this point of view.........

Your FLGS has some scrunty dressed alternatives for staff and possibly several kids as constant customers......

Toys R us has a load of lovely lookin' moms in probably a great mood because they're tryin' ta find the 'in ' toy fer their kid/s and you're probably the most qualified person in that store to help those lovely moms find those games because at least you have the gamin' mindset/enthusiasm..........don't knock it!!!!!

Goodnight.