Why is Arcane Spell Failure a "Sacred Cow".

[Voadam]

I've also come up with different feats and armor enchantments in my game for reducing arcane spell failure. A feat or feat chain is a reasonable tradeoff for reducing spell failure or eliminating one more roll in combat. Similarly it makes sense that generations of long lived multiclass fighter/wizard dwarves and elves would want to come up with techniques or enchantments to allow integrating armor and casting. And going by 5% increments for ASF makes adding d20 mods easy mechanically. I think I heard that Monte's BoEMII has some armor enhancement as well for reducing ASF but I don't own it so I can't confirm that.

 

[Lord Ravinous]

"Butcher" is probably a strong word(and in my mind affirms my suspiscion about the whole Sacred Cow thing.......

In my case, I'm unhappy with the available options in the core rules for the reasons I've outlined and Sigil's solution seems to me to maintain the balance of the rules and even the "sacredness" of arcane spell casters not being able to wear armor.

All I'm saying is that I don't think changing certain rules or "sacred cows" that have been around a long time is the way to go here. I mean while were at it why don't we make the restriction on a Paladin "any good" instead of just Lawful Good?

Instead of going the route your on right now, couldn't you (as the DM, I'm assuming) simply make an Armor Magical Ability called Ease, which reduces spell failure, and have it broken up into 3 stages like Fortification?

 

[The Sigil]

Yup...

Hey, Sigil, just so you know, Wand spells can only go up to 4th level. No 5th level wands.

True. But by that time you're just about ready to pick up Craft Staff, aren't you?

--The Sigil

 

[Corinth]

I don't think they add up. Both force type.

Mage Armor grants an armor bonus. Shield grants a cover bonus. That's why the effects stack.

 

[JESawyer]

Before anyone tries to justify the fictional reasons for why ASF works the way it does, it would probably be wise to justify the mechanical argument for its existence. Given the fact that wizards can easily get a very high AC with two or three simple spells (and no movement/skill penalties, to boot) negates most arguments that allowing wizards to wear armor makes them "too tough".

I put an Armored Arcana feat in my PnP game that reduced ASF by 10% per slot, maximum of three slots. That's right. Not even 5%, but 1-0-%. Most arcane casters still didn't take it, and just stuck to the traditional arcane protective spells.

Even with 10% a pop, you're still talking about three feats for the maximum reduction. If you wear almost any medium or heavy armor with a shield, you still have a non-trivial chance of failure. That also ignores the fact that a single-classed wizard or sorcerer isn't proficient in ANY armor. So, unless he or she wants big penalties on top of that, he or she needs to spend a total of six feats to wear full plate with a large shield for "only" a 20% chance of failure. That's one out of every five spells!

I would suggest trying ASF reduction feats out in your game, because they really do open up the type of flexibility that I believe 3E typically supports.

 

[Andor]

Why is everyone stuck on feats? Especially ones that fail to equal the already existant still spell?

Just make a new skill called Armor Compensation that subtracts it's ranks from your ASF. No overlap with concentration, means the character must still pay precious skill points, if not the much more dear feats.

-Andor

 

[The Sigil]

Problems...

Why is everyone stuck on feats? Especially ones that fail to equal the already existant still spell?

Ah, but they do NOT fail to equal Still Spell... they simply provide a different workaround. If I take Still Spell I can cast in leather... but my Magic Missile "costs" me a 2nd-level spell slot. If I take Armored Casting, I can cast in leather... but my Magic Missile "costs" me a 1st-level spell slot.

In plate mail, Still Spell requires a 2nd-level spell slot, while Armored Casting reduces (but does not eliminate) a Spell Fail chance. The question becomes, "do you wish to risk Spell Fail Chance and have access to your most powerful spells or do you wish to use higher level spell slots and not all of your most powerful spells?"

Just make a new skill called Armor Compensation that subtracts it's ranks from your ASF. No overlap with concentration, means the character must still pay precious skill points, if not the much more dear feats.

Answer: Because it's the wrong mechanic. Skills are things where you "roll a d20 and add your skill rank." By their nature, they do not always work. There is uncertainty as to the exact utility of a Skill, because a d20 roll is involved.

Feats, on the other hand, are the "always on" benefits. To create a skill such as you have suggested is an "always on" benefit and in and of itself has no chance of success or failure - it therefore belongs with Feats, not Skills.

--The Sigil

 

[Sir Hawkeye]

Before anyone tries to justify the fictional reasons for why ASF works the way it does, it would probably be wise to justify the mechanical argument for its existence. Given the fact that wizards can easily get a very high AC with two or three simple spells (and no movement/skill penalties, to boot) negates most arguments that allowing wizards to wear armor makes them "too tough".

the problem is the combination of those spells with armor. Most armors will offer a significant improvement to a wizard's AC, and it opens up another slot for enhancements. A Large Shield +5 and Full Plate +5 (+20 AC) combined cost less than bracers of armor +8. AC 31 with a 12 dex, plus Shield (spell), Fly(there goes the movement penalty), Improved Invisible, made his own ring of deflection and amulet of natural armor.

Not that I'm against some feats to reduce ASF, I just don't think it should be free.

 

[bardolph]

Gron the Demon Master should be a Cleric, not a Wizard

 

[Uller]

Gron the Demon Master should be a Cleric, not a Wizard

Bah! Gron's powers derive from his demonic ancestry(and stunning personality), not from begging from some so-called god!