Why is Con so useless?

[Number48]

So the entirety of Con in noncombat is Endurance? I still call that pretty poor. Yes, Con was important in 3E and 4E because you could essentially ignore 3 or 4 stats. In 5E, all stats are supposed to be important. So I see Charisma being added to the grownup's table but Con going down to the kid's table because you can actively use Chr, you can see a situation and say, "I'm going to use my personality to solve this." But Con? "I'm going to hold breath until I get my way?"

It's not about the DM providing useful challenges for Con, because the DM shouldn't be deciding how characters approach a problem. Con is piss-poor for approaching problems. Think about it from the perspective of 5E's open skill system. You get assigned skills that aren't part of a chart and get to add +2 if you can reasonably use that skill in a situation. How many Con-based skills could there possibly be that aren't just copies of "I hold my breath?"

 

[thedungeondelver]

Find me a dwarf who doesn't want a high CON. Oh, what's that? A poison needle? Hm, I'm a 3rd level thief, let's see I need...oh...an EIGHT to save. Oh and that nets me how many extra HP? Four is it?

And blessed is the magic-user who has the available 18 to put into CON. "Can be killed by a house cat" indeed. System Shock and Resurrection Survival chances through the roof? Hel-LOO!

There's a lot of good to be had from having a high CON stat, especially if D&Dn is drawing from older editions.

 

[exile]

I think CON will be a good choice for any character's second highest ability score. It has traditionally influenced hit points. I think along with dexterity and wisdom, it will be called upon frequently for ability-based saving throws. It might even factor into death saves (or something similar).

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=6688047]Number48[/MENTION]
Tell my con-based 4e knight that constitution isn't important. By 5th level he has resisted a disease which ravaged the rest of the party, caught a broken rope and held it long enough for falling companion to climb to safety, forced march overnight to rescue captured PCs, charged thru a cloud of poison spores the rest of the party couldn't, and almost never needs to take a premature extended rest thanks to 14 healing surges and CON-value temporary hit points via a stalwart belt & a very helpful Ardent PC. Whenever he hits - which is most of the time - he cleaves another adjacent enemy for CON-value auto-damage.

Not sure where your hate for CON is coming from, but "constitution is piss-poor" hasn't been my experience in the latest editionor any edition for that matter.

 

[Li Shenron]

In 5E, the stated goal is to make ability scores count more. If that's the case, then we are going to have a problem with con. The other 5 scores represent things you can actively do, but Con is completely passive. ...

Well, any activity requiring a resistance- or stamina-type effort does require a Con check, but sure they don't happen that often.

But... saying that Con doesn't count enough it plain wrong! It is in fact the one ability that almost no one want a low score in

 

[the Jester]

In 5E, the stated goal is to make ability scores count more. If that's the case, then we are going to have a problem with con. The other 5 scores represent things you can actively do, but Con is completely passive. Let me lay out an example.

The group needs to get into the mayor's house. The plan is to go tomorrow night. However, they first need to work out a way past the locked door in the back. I can see an approach based on Str, Dex, Int, Wis or Chr. I don't see any way to apply Con to this situation.

"While you guys try to sneak in the door, I'll hold my breath and float underwater up the stream that feeds his gardens!"

 

[kitsune9]

If you have 0 Con, you die. Kind of important to me.

 

[Oni]

The group needs to get into the mayor's house. The plan is to go tomorrow night. However, they first need to work out a way past the locked door in the back. I can see an approach based on Str, Dex, Int, Wis or Chr. I don't see any way to apply Con to this situation.

I feel like this is a setup for a joke about the Mayor's daughter....

 

[Mattachine]

Con checks that are active must revolve around toughness or endurance, yes.

Likewise, Cha checks that are active must revolve around influencing others, yes.
Difference: D&D often divided the "influence" skill into 2-4 different skills, making Cha seem more important.

Con checks come up if the DM creates situations where they matter. Likewise, Cha checks only come up if the DM creates situations where they matter.

There are plenty of old school games that were just dungeoncrawls. Cha never came up, and Con often did.

 

[grimslade]

So the entirety of Con in noncombat is Endurance? I still call that pretty poor. Yes, Con was important in 3E and 4E because you could essentially ignore 3 or 4 stats. In 5E, all stats are supposed to be important. So I see Charisma being added to the grownup's table but Con going down to the kid's table because you can actively use Chr, you can see a situation and say, "I'm going to use my personality to solve this." But Con? "I'm going to hold breath until I get my way?"

It's not about the DM providing useful challenges for Con, because the DM shouldn't be deciding how characters approach a problem. Con is piss-poor for approaching problems. Think about it from the perspective of 5E's open skill system. You get assigned skills that aren't part of a chart and get to add +2 if you can reasonably use that skill in a situation. How many Con-based skills could there possibly be that aren't just copies of "I hold my breath?"

Many feats of strength are feats of constitution. The fat warlock, who barely can do more then lift his trencher to his lips, may be able to leverage his inhuman resilience to accomplish tasks Mr. Buff McRoids uses his muscles for. The point is that the player and DM can work out how such an iron gulleted glutton leverages his resilience to accomplish things. Endurance is a big part, it is the easiest, but the trick is how freakishly hearty people can use it, right?
Or are we looking for certain skills that reference con exclusively? Does the list need to be even between abilities?