Why is Con so useless?

I don't see why it's important for Con to be an active stat. In 3E, Con had no active functions whatsoever, but nobody dumped it, because it governed your hit points, as well as your saves against some really nasty effects. In fact, it was arguably overpowered.

To me, the ideal of stat balance is for each stat to have about an equal likelihood (compared to the other five) of being dumped, and an equal likelihood of being pumped, across the community of players. If you've got that, I think the needs of balance are served.
 
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I don't believe the OP says Con is, was or is going to be useless, but I'm not sure I'm right reading the rest of the thread. He's saying, and quite rightly I think, that the snippets of how Next works place a high emphasis on problem solving and that problem solving keys on your actual stats. Con will be imprtant provided it increases your hit points and defense against common hazards like poison and whatnot, but it value for problem solving is virtually zero.

The OP closed gate problem is a good example; the only solutions proposed to solve it with Con relies on the hypothetical existence of an underwater passage completely filled with water, long enough to justify using Con instead of Str (the ability normally keyed to athletic activities) but short enough to be traversed. Meanwhile you can use, for example, Dex to open the lock, to climb the wall, to steal the key, to slip through the bars or to enter behind someone without being seen, just to name a few examples. And Dex is also the stat you use to get your AC up (or down, depending on the system) and to avoid things like fireballs and dragon breaths.
 
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He's saying, and quite rightly I think, that the snippets of how Next works place a high emphasis on problem solving and that problem solving keys on your actual stats. Con will be imprtant provided it increases your hit points and defense against common hazards like poison and whatnot, but it value for problem solving is virtually zero.

Yes, this appears to be what the OP is saying. My response can be summed up as: So what? Why is this a problem?
 

Find me a dwarf who doesn't want a high CON. Oh, what's that? A poison needle? Hm, I'm a 3rd level thief, let's see I need...oh...an EIGHT to save. Oh and that nets me how many extra HP? Four is it?

Hmmm...... your AD&D kung -fu has grown weak. Any non-fighter class gets a max of +2 hp from a CON of 16 +.

I would houserule otherwise. ;)
 


I kind of see the OP's point. The thing is that a lot of the situations where we could use a Con check, hit point damage is the mechanism used instead. An indirect use of Con, instead of the direct use of the other abilities.

For example, when I lived in Nigeria, the tops of the walls of our compound were covered in broken glass to deter thieves. If the mayor has a similar wall surrounding his compound, you could make an argument that one should be allowed to make a Con check to clamber over the walls and ignore the excruciating pain of the broken glass. Failing the Con check means you can't take the pain and slide back down the wall.

But in most D&D games, this is going to be modeled more like a Dex check to avoid the glass, and take X damage if you fail. The Con check is indirect and handled through the player having more health than the damage dealt.
 

The trick is to get around the idea that Constitution is a passive statistic and embrace it as an expression of athletic ability like Strength and Dexterity. As such, there are times when a character is attempting a physical feat where they would roll a Constitution check in lieu of rolling a Strength or Dexterity check.

Look at it this way, at its core, Strength is the stat of explosive power. It is the stat of the sprinter or the weigth-lifter, physical disciplines that require a tremendous amount of energy expended in a short burst. Strength is anaerobic effort. On the other hand, Constitution is the stat of sustained power. It is the stat of the long-distance runner and athlete who has to be continuously moving. Constitution is aerobic effort.

As such, I suggest that there are times when a character with a high Con and low Str and Dex can still perform rather significant acts of physical skill. Since Con is still an athletic stat like Str or Dex, it still can be used as a representative of a character's overall athletic ability. It is merely a different sort of physical ability. So a character should be able to use their Con as their primary stat when making a skill check for a physical activity such as climbing a rock wall or swimming in a rough sea, no Str or Dex check required.
 


Every version CON has been massively important for those passive reasons (HP especially, poison resist e.t.c. on the side). In fact, if not primary to anyone's purposes at minimum its your number 2 or 3 stat.

But that not what the OP is talking about. Hes saying its the least "used" skill. Lets put aside how your group plays and just focus on a simple fact of the game itself : isnt one of them going to be? Isnt it inevitable that out of a set of six, one is inevitably going to be used less than the others?

Frankly, given CON's essential secondary effects, Im kinda happy if it sees the least active use, that way its not a super stat.
 

The OP closed gate problem is a good example; the only solutions proposed to solve it with Con relies on the hypothetical existence of an underwater passage completely filled with water, long enough to justify using Con instead of Str (the ability normally keyed to athletic activities) but short enough to be traversed.
So is the expectation that in the next edition a player should be able to call upon any of the six abilities in any given situation? That seems like quite a stretch to me.

Meanwhile you can use, for example, Dex to open the lock, to climb the wall, to steal the key, to slip through the bars or to enter behind someone without being seen, just to name a few examples.

Sheesh if you really want examples of ways Constitution could be used to get inside a guarded manor house, here ya go:

1. Ditch your gear an hire on as a porter lugging goods into the manor courtyard or a sedan chair carrier for one of the manor nobles.
2. Engage an off duty guard in a drinking contest.
3. Hang on to the bottom of a carriage leaving town bound for the manor.
4. If the noble is an enemy, you could turn yourself in and just endure torture/beating, as part of a larger plan.
5. As a group somehow make the environs of the manor inhospitable (eg. control weather or start a fire), and while the manor is being evacuated the party sends in their toughest member.
6. Show the manor lord's rebellious son/daughter a "good time". ;)
7. Have a wizard cast a polymorph spell into a housecat or a horse which requires a constitution based system shock check.
8. Aerial drop from a high tower/tree or while flying overhead - use CON to brace for fall (hey if you can use Dex to climb insead of Str why not?)
9. Engage the manor's guardian in a "game of wits" a la Princess Bride.

...and...

10. Hold your breath thru the stream feeding the manor's well.
 

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