Chainsaw Mage
First Post
Black Omega said:Yes, but were they high on dope and using AK-47's?
Heh heh...good point! Maybe I should rethink my planned invasion of Iceland.
Why is Medieval fantasy the standard?
- Thread starter Tinker Gnome
- Start date
Heh heh...good point! Maybe I should rethink my planned invasion of Iceland.
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
Galeros said:Well, I guess all are good resons. I guess I am just odd. I do not mind having a Medieval style backdrop, but with high tech spaceships flying over the land as well.
So much for castles, then. Your high tech spaceships would simply bomb them to smithereens (man, I haven't used "smithereens" in ages!
). Instead of castles your nobles would only be secure in underground bunkers.That's the problem with introducing technology: there's a decided ripple effect as everything changes in the world accordingly. Why don't soldiers use bows and arrows these days? Guns made them obsolete. So introduce gunpowder with care.
And so on.
Chainsaw Mage
First Post
WizarDru said:
Exactly. If you *really* want a "medieval" RPG, try GURPS Middle Ages. My goodness, it's depressing.
Rodrigo Istalindir
Explorer
There is another factor, too, I think. What sets the tone of D&D (or RPGs in general) is the DM. If the DM's are running pseudo-medieval campaigns, then that is what the market will follow, largely. And addition to reasons of tradition, a lot of DMs will avoid modern and sci-fi for practical reasons.
It has been my experience, having played and DM'd everything "Sticks and Stones" to "Space Opera", that the closer you approach modern day (from either direction), the harder it is for the DM to keep a group focused, present challenging problems, and not resort to 'because I said so' as a reason. In a medieval setting, its easy and plausible for the DM to say "You can't get to the city, the river is flooded and impassible." Players will buy this, since it fits with the setting. Similarly, he could say "No, you can't get off-planet because there is an Imperial Star Destroyer blockading it." On the other hand, tell players they can't get from Philly to DC and watch them spend an hour trying to come up with a way.
Or: "No one who ever searched for the Forbidden City has returned alive, so no one is exactly sure where it is." No problem. "Hmmm. Someone seems to have removed the location of that planet from the Jedi archives". Stretching it, but Ok. Then, "What do you mean I can't google it and find out?" or "We go to that website that lets you buy satellite photos of anywhere on earth."
There is another thread around here somewhere regarding most-disliked spells. Lots of people dislike fly and teleport, because they trivialize the effort involved in getting from A to B. Scrying is the same way, because why should the players bother pounding the pavement to dig up info, when they can just cast a spell. It's also partly why you see a lot of people interested in low-magic settings. D&D style fantasy, for the most part, presents a nice sandbox in which people can play, that is relatively easy to DM, and that is kind of self-correcting in that it's harder to get dragged completely off track.
It has been my experience, having played and DM'd everything "Sticks and Stones" to "Space Opera", that the closer you approach modern day (from either direction), the harder it is for the DM to keep a group focused, present challenging problems, and not resort to 'because I said so' as a reason. In a medieval setting, its easy and plausible for the DM to say "You can't get to the city, the river is flooded and impassible." Players will buy this, since it fits with the setting. Similarly, he could say "No, you can't get off-planet because there is an Imperial Star Destroyer blockading it." On the other hand, tell players they can't get from Philly to DC and watch them spend an hour trying to come up with a way.
Or: "No one who ever searched for the Forbidden City has returned alive, so no one is exactly sure where it is." No problem. "Hmmm. Someone seems to have removed the location of that planet from the Jedi archives". Stretching it, but Ok. Then, "What do you mean I can't google it and find out?" or "We go to that website that lets you buy satellite photos of anywhere on earth."
There is another thread around here somewhere regarding most-disliked spells. Lots of people dislike fly and teleport, because they trivialize the effort involved in getting from A to B. Scrying is the same way, because why should the players bother pounding the pavement to dig up info, when they can just cast a spell. It's also partly why you see a lot of people interested in low-magic settings. D&D style fantasy, for the most part, presents a nice sandbox in which people can play, that is relatively easy to DM, and that is kind of self-correcting in that it's harder to get dragged completely off track.
One minor nitpick: Somebody said that other genres weren't as popular in Europe and in Asia, and included Westerns. From my travels to Europe with my Cheyenne father-in-law, I've learned that Westerns are HUUUUUUGE in Europe -- in my completely anecdotal experience. Native Americans have this whole mystique that's big in other cultures, particularly Germany and Russia (where people kept wanting to get their picture taken with my father in law). And if Westerns aren't popular in Asia, how do we explain the enormous crossover of ideas from Samurai movies to Westerns?
I have very little useful to add, but I can say that. People in Europe and Asia like Westerns, at least as much as people in the U.S. seem to like 'em.
I have very little useful to add, but I can say that. People in Europe and Asia like Westerns, at least as much as people in the U.S. seem to like 'em.
Tinker Gnome
Adventurer
Chainsaw Mage said:So much for castles, then. Your high tech spaceships would simply bomb them to smithereens (man, I haven't used "smithereens" in ages!
That's the problem with introducing technology: there's a decided ripple effect as everything changes in the world accordingly. Why don't soldiers use bows and arrows these days? Guns made them obsolete. So introduce gunpowder with care.
And so on.
Nope, cuase the castles have magical wards and sheilds. And the archers have magical arrows. But, the aliens are not interested in bombing the castle anyway.
frankthedm
First Post
Chainsaw Mage said:
Did they make sure each one had bayonette practive on a live target? Its very effective to get a soldiers first kill out of the way BEFORE the battlefield.
Tinker Gnome
Adventurer
Bump!!!
re
I like medeival fantasy because I like knights and many of the trappings of medieval times. Then again, I also like to throw in Vikings and Celtic stuff as well. Then there's the Tolkien influence with elves, dwarves, and hobbits. I would think most fantasy gamer's have been heavily influenced by The Lord of the Rings, Norse Mythology, and the Arthurian legends thus making medieval fantasy the standard for many D&D worlds.
I don't mind genre mixing when it is done well. I really enjoyed the game Shadowrun, which mixed traditional fantasy, Japanese historical archetypes, and Neuromancer type tecnology together to create a very enjoyable game.
Genre mixing can be done. I like it more as a break from tradition than a replacement for tradition. I started playing fantasy to imagine myself as a noble knight. I definitely don't want to imagine being blasted by a laser pistol. It would ruin the feel of imagining being a knight.
I like medeival fantasy because I like knights and many of the trappings of medieval times. Then again, I also like to throw in Vikings and Celtic stuff as well. Then there's the Tolkien influence with elves, dwarves, and hobbits. I would think most fantasy gamer's have been heavily influenced by The Lord of the Rings, Norse Mythology, and the Arthurian legends thus making medieval fantasy the standard for many D&D worlds.
I don't mind genre mixing when it is done well. I really enjoyed the game Shadowrun, which mixed traditional fantasy, Japanese historical archetypes, and Neuromancer type tecnology together to create a very enjoyable game.
Genre mixing can be done. I like it more as a break from tradition than a replacement for tradition. I started playing fantasy to imagine myself as a noble knight. I definitely don't want to imagine being blasted by a laser pistol. It would ruin the feel of imagining being a knight.
One of the things a game genre does is provide an agreed-upon set of conventions and conceits. Medieval fantasy - or really any historical setting, lets the group have context for their rules and decisions.
The PCs are yahoos with swords and armor. There are kings, castles, dungeons, and dragons found therein. Everyone's on the same page with this. The rules encourage the use of swords and/or sorcery, and encourage players to get into that element. It's all about the group's definition of the genre. If something came along that caused real cognitive disconnect, like a UFO, it could well undermine the player's confidence in their choices of character, gear, and abilities. If any goofy, surrealistic thing can happen, they'll tend to treat the campaign like a Python sketch.
As for the question of why mazes and monsters instead of any other genre - that's tricky. It could be that scifi isn't escapist enough anymore. Moon rockets, telecommunicators, and death rays already exist.
Most folks have a decent enough education in the sciences or in history to have a little twinge of skepticism when the three-eyed Venusian pops up, or when Black Bart the cowboy busts out ninja kicks. That leads us to mythic type fantasy, which has plenty of familiar tales and archetypes, which has tales of incredible, inscrutable forces representing some principle or another, which can then be extrapolated 'forward' into different genres. When it comes down to applying genre 'rules' or game rules, and whether it's GI helmet, superguy cape, space suit or mithril plate, it's simply the thousand and first face of the hero.
The PCs are yahoos with swords and armor. There are kings, castles, dungeons, and dragons found therein. Everyone's on the same page with this. The rules encourage the use of swords and/or sorcery, and encourage players to get into that element. It's all about the group's definition of the genre. If something came along that caused real cognitive disconnect, like a UFO, it could well undermine the player's confidence in their choices of character, gear, and abilities. If any goofy, surrealistic thing can happen, they'll tend to treat the campaign like a Python sketch.
As for the question of why mazes and monsters instead of any other genre - that's tricky. It could be that scifi isn't escapist enough anymore. Moon rockets, telecommunicators, and death rays already exist.
Most folks have a decent enough education in the sciences or in history to have a little twinge of skepticism when the three-eyed Venusian pops up, or when Black Bart the cowboy busts out ninja kicks. That leads us to mythic type fantasy, which has plenty of familiar tales and archetypes, which has tales of incredible, inscrutable forces representing some principle or another, which can then be extrapolated 'forward' into different genres. When it comes down to applying genre 'rules' or game rules, and whether it's GI helmet, superguy cape, space suit or mithril plate, it's simply the thousand and first face of the hero.
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