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D&D 5E Why is There No Warlord Equivalent in 5E?

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
i see alot of people putting martial weapons on their 'essential warlord things' and that surprises me, i fully admit i never touched 4e that was before i was in the hobby so i don't know the 4e warlord's design but given people equate it's role closer to that of a cleric i would've thought simple weapons would be fine? maybe with additional shortsword/scimitar/longsword/rapier proficiency, with it's main contributions factor being through providing support to other attackers and a little bit of tanking rather than dealing the damage themselves.

something like
d10HD,
simple weapons + shortsword, scimitar, longsword and rapier,
heavy armour + shields,
extra attack+1
 

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FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Bare minimum? How about:

Martial Weapons, All Armors, Shields, at least d8 hit die.

*A method to heal/mitigate damage for an ally twice per day.
*A "team field" bonus that can be used once per day.
*A bonus action ability to grant an ally an attack a few times per day.
What is a team field bonus?
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
i see alot of people putting martial weapons on their 'essential warlord things' and that surprises me, i fully admit i never touched 4e that was before i was in the hobby so i don't know the 4e warlord's design but given people equate it's role closer to that of a cleric i would've thought simple weapons would be fine? maybe with additional shortsword/scimitar/longsword/rapier proficiency, with it's main contributions factor being through providing support to other attackers and a little bit of tanking rather than dealing the damage themselves.

something like
d10HD,
simple weapons + shortsword, scimitar, longsword and rapier,
heavy armour + shields,
extra attack+1
4e warlord was medium armor and less hp than fighter.
 


Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
given people equate it's role closer to that of a cleric i would've thought simple weapons would be fine? maybe with additional shortsword/scimitar/longsword/rapier proficiency, with it's main contributions factor being through providing support to other attackers and a little bit of tanking rather than dealing the damage themselves.
something like
d10HD,
simple weapons + shortsword, scimitar, longsword and rapier,
heavy armour + shields,
extra attack+1

The Warlord Intelligence flavor includes the formally-educated aristocratic military officer.

Martial weapons are necessary. Likewise an Extra Attack. The Warlord that "leads from the front" is fully combat able, even training others in the use of weapons, whence the coaching during combat.

Medium Armor is fine, while a subclass might go Heavy.

d8 HD is fine. The Warlord will often include oneself while buffing team Hit Points.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
I was personally willing to accept bumping that last thing up to level 2 or 3, in line with 5e's "discourage dipping" class design. Having all three things all show up right at 1st level is, to some extent, significantly disfavored by 5e.
Well that and I don't think any class gets 3 significant abilities at level 1. 2 at most.

Then typically level 2 and 3 adds another significant ability and a significant subclass ability.
 

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
The 4e Warlord included grid-counting movement.

But these are doable in theater of the mind, describing:
• close, near (within 30 feet)
• distant, far (beyond 30 feet)
• engaging
• disengaging

And so on.

There is rarely a need for precise measurement-counting.
 


EzekielRaiden

Follower of the Way
The Warlord Intelligence flavor includes the formally-educated aristocratic military officer.

Martial weapons are necessary. Likewise an Extra Attack. The Warlord that "leads from the front" is fully combat able, even training others in the use of weapons, whence the coaching during combat.

Medium Armor is fine, while a subclass might go Heavy.

d8 HD is fine. The Warlord will often include oneself while buffing team Hit Points.
I personally don't think Extra Attack is a requirement. I think it absolutely must be an option. But I see it as working like Warlock. SOME Warlocks have Extra Attack. Others rely on other things. Likewise, SOME Warlords would have Extra Attack. Others would rely on other things.

i see alot of people putting martial weapons on their 'essential warlord things' and that surprises me, i fully admit i never touched 4e that was before i was in the hobby so i don't know the 4e warlord's design but given people equate it's role closer to that of a cleric i would've thought simple weapons would be fine? maybe with additional shortsword/scimitar/longsword/rapier proficiency, with it's main contributions factor being through providing support to other attackers and a little bit of tanking rather than dealing the damage themselves.

something like
d10HD,
simple weapons + shortsword, scimitar, longsword and rapier,
heavy armour + shields,
extra attack+1
Well, the idea is being, y'know, a student of war. Martial weapons IMO much better reflect that status than high HD, heavy armor, or extra attack, because martial weapons are about your training and practice, not about hardiness.

And, as I've said repeatedly, 5e does not support removing class features. Class features are treated as purely additive, never subtractive. Hence, if we're going to go for something, we have to be really, REALLY sure it should be appropriate pretty much all of the time.

Limiting all Warlords (except those who opt up) to only simple weapons plus a tiny handful of others doesn't seem to fit the theme to me--and the vast majority of characters are going to specialize in only one or two weapons anyway, so I don't really see downsides to just going "martial weapons." If this is really such a dealbreaker for you, I guess I could see all simple weapons + your choice of three martial weapons maybe?

Shields I'm kind of give or take on, I'd prefer them being baked in but I could live without it, so long as it can be acquired some other way in-class (e.g., if using the "fractal" subclass model, the Invocation-style selectable training.)

d10 HD seems off-theme as a core feature, but (again, invoking Dragon Sorcery) perfectly cromulent as a subclass upgrade. Likewise, Extra Attack is frequently granted via subclasses (Blade Pact, Valor/Swords, Bladesinger, etc.), so that's a prime candidate for subclass-specific material. IIRC, in extant 5e, only Clerics get bonus armor proficiencies from subclass, but several such subclasses exist, so I'm not at all seeing a problem with tying heavy armor to specific subclasses.

I see the Warlord as slotting in kinda-sorta near the Bard in terms of overall class position. It's a support-heavy class with a major secondary focus (charms, illusions, and enchantments for Bard; combat acumen and battlefield response for the Warlord), flexible enough to potentially push into multiple different roles if investing into it, but only one or perhaps two such things for any given character.

Hence, my baseline package, which many subclasses would modify, would be:
d8 HP
Martial weapons
Medium armor + shields
Str/Con saves

The "Vanguard" subclass, which would be the one available in the SRD, would be the straightforward lower-engagement option. It gets +1 HP per class level and +1 hit point per Warlord HD spent to heal (effectively d10 HD) and heavy armor at 2nd or 3rd or whatever, then Extra Attack at 5th, then some basic passive/very simple active, then some final boost to basic stuff at the highest subclass level. Simple, straightforward battlefield leader who keeps up with the big boys.

Other subclasses could then explore other sorts of things, things that don't necessarily require being a front-line warrior, but still reward training and skill and strategy.
 

James Gasik

We don't talk about Pun-Pun
Supporter
I was personally willing to accept bumping that last thing up to level 2 or 3, in line with 5e's "discourage dipping" class design. Having all three things all show up right at 1st level is, to some extent, significantly disfavored by 5e.
It's interesting that you say that since what I just described is almost identical to a 1st level War Domain Cleric.
 

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