Why is there so much hate?

[Arkhandus]

Has anyone house-ruled in anything to make half-elves cooler?

My short-hand version of half-elves in Aurelia....

Elves are creations of the sylvan deities, so they have a similarity to fey but aren't quite fey themselves, which is partially passed down to half-elves. Half-elves are usually treated the same as elves or humans, though sometimes a bit worse. Communities consisting entirely of half-elves also exist in Aurelia. Since they have some human adaptability and ingenuity, they're less constrained by elven mindsets and elven goals, so they're more open-minded and inventive, and just plain easier to get along with (though less naturally charismatic).

Half-orcs are less common, but Aurelian orcs are just ugly, not fugly, and not universally repugnant. All races in Aurelia are a bit stronger than the core; I used dwarves as the baseline rather than the absurd exception to the rule power-wise, so everyone else got beefed up (dwarves are a bit tougher but not really any more powerful).

Half-Elf: Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human); Base Speed (40 feet); +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution (Half-Elves possess much of the grace and swiftness inherant to their Elven bloodline, but also suffer from the slender frame and light bones of that heritage.); Low-Light Vision (2 times as far as a human); Elven Blood (treat as both an Elf and a Human for purposes of what affects them and what they may use); Elven Likeness (+2 on Charisma and Animal Empathy checks to determine the initial reaction of animals, can use Animal Empathy untrained and regardless of class for that one purpose, suffers normal aging effects but shows no outward signs of aging beyond young adulthood, immune to the paralyzing touch or stench of ghouls, needs only 4 hours of sleep instead of 8); Bonus Feat (extra feat at 1st-level); +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot (no Elven automatic Search); +2 Will (only versus the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey or plants); Automatic Language (Elven or one regional language); Intelligence Bonus Languages (any except restricted languages); Favored Class (highest-level class at any given time).

 

[JustinA]

OK, why is there so much hatred for half-elves? Seriously, every DM and most of the players I know mass so much hatred on them, and I cannot see why for the life of me! They say it's one of the worst races, and I think it's actually one of the better ones! Certainly not one of the best, but better. As such, I challenge the people on this forum to explain why there is so much hatred, by posting things that make the half-elves not work, using in-game mechanics! Don't bring up role-play oriented stuff, or other things that are directly tied to the player, only stuff that is directly tied to the character, which the player has no influence over.

I don't have anything against half-elves conceptually. In previous editions, I played them all the time. In my primary campaign world they're one of the few humanoid races to survive the Great Humanoid Purge (which claimed both halflings and gnomes from among the PC races).

But I haven't played a single half-elf since I started using 3rd Edition.

Why?

Because half-elves got shafted. The boost they received in the 3.5 revision helps a little bit, but they're still the poor cousins of the elf and lack the flexibility of a human-based build. When I'm looking for that elvish touch, I'm usually better going with an actual elf. When I'm trying to model a specific character in my head, the flexibility of the human's bonus skill points and feat is hard to beat.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

 

[Thurbane]

OK, why is there so much hatred for half-elves? Seriously, every DM and most of the players I know mass so much hatred on them, and I cannot see why for the life of me! They say it's one of the worst races, and I think it's actually one of the better ones! Certainly not one of the best, but better. As such, I challenge the people on this forum to explain why there is so much hatred, by posting things that make the half-elves not work, using in-game mechanics! Don't bring up role-play oriented stuff, or other things that are directly tied to the player, only stuff that is directly tied to the character, which the player has no influence over.

I don't hate 1/2 Elves, but the ruleset apparently does. The only thing they are good for is diplomat-type characters.

After 1/2 Orcs, 1/2 Elves get screwed over the most of the PHB races by their abilities. I think a fair houserule is to give them a bonus feat or bonus skill points, as a human.

 

[Drowbane]

Here is to the hope that WotC leaves half-breeds out of 4e!

 

[gnfnrf]

I really don't like how half-elves and half-orcs are considered common enough to warrant thier own population listings for cities... (much less thier own Dragonmarked Houses).

A minor quibble... In Eberron, half-elves are a distinct race that breeds true, and not typically the result of crossbreeding, so a Dragonmarked House is perfectly reasonable. Half-orcs, on the other hand... don't actually get their own house, so it's all good.

--
gnfnrf

 

[Brasswatchman]

I wouldn't say that I hate half-elves, but I generally do have a hard time figuring out how to play half-elf characters, or fitting them into my campaign settings. If I had to think about it, I'd say it was because they don't really have a very strong identity in my mind, at least in the basic game setting... Halflings are hobbits, with all of their unique particularities. Half-orcs are outsiders, and generally have a lot of anger because of it, which is useful. But half-elves? They're hella social, and they're sort of caught between human and elf culture, but unless there's conflict in that relationship (like humans and orcs) it's kind of hard to find something to work with... anyway, I generally have the same problem with gnomes. Especially when playing in a medieval-style setting where the "steampunk"/crazy proto-technology stuff isn't available...

 

[Drowbane]

...so it's all good...

I respectfully disagree. Its not all good.

 

[AnonymousOne]

My short-hand version of half-elves in Aurelia....

Half-Elf: Medium Humanoid (Elf, Human); Base Speed (40 feet); +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution (Half-Elves possess much of the grace and swiftness inherant to their Elven bloodline, but also suffer from the slender frame and light bones of that heritage.); Low-Light Vision (2 times as far as a human); Elven Blood (treat as both an Elf and a Human for purposes of what affects them and what they may use); Elven Likeness (+2 on Charisma and Animal Empathy checks to determine the initial reaction of animals, can use Animal Empathy untrained and regardless of class for that one purpose, suffers normal aging effects but shows no outward signs of aging beyond young adulthood, immune to the paralyzing touch or stench of ghouls, needs only 4 hours of sleep instead of 8); Bonus Feat (extra feat at 1st-level); +2 Listen, +2 Search, +2 Spot (no Elven automatic Search); +2 Will (only versus the spell-like and supernatural abilities of fey or plants); Automatic Language (Elven or one regional language); Intelligence Bonus Languages (any except restricted languages); Favored Class (highest-level class at any given time).

I'd play one of those in a heartbeat. Though they are beefed up, you can pull some of those abilities and make them a completely viable race for players to consider.

 

[Renfield]

Heh, Half elves...

I don't hate them, after all, it's not their fault they have the tainted blood of the tree-hugging effeminate sissies that are elves (Now get one of those into my campaign and my players rag on them constantly ). However as far as mechanics went I thought the diplomacy monkey was one of the lamest things Wizards have done since making Spell Focus a +1 instead of a +2... or the 3.0 ranger, I digress. I always thought they should have more distinction as a halfbreed, so I decided to modify them thusly:

Half-Elf Racial Traits:

* Immunity to sleep spells and similar magical effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against Enchantment spells of spell effects.
* Low Light vision.
* +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
* Elven Blood
* Favored Class: Any
* +1 to Dex -1 to Con
* Human Raised: A human raised half-elf learns something of their flexibility and aquires either the bonus feat at first level or the human skill bonus.
* Elf-raised: A elf raised half-elf has been able to keep up with his studies enough to gain proficiency either in bows or blades. AKA: they get a free weapon-proficiency in either longsword and rapier *or* longbow, shortbow, comp longbow, and comp short bow regardless of their class. Half Elves who naturally have these then gain weapon focus in one of the above. (AKA a half-elven fighter chooses the rapier for some reason and gets weapon focus rapier. However a half-elven mage decides he wants to be able to use a blade should he get into melee so he chooses to be proficient in both rapier *and* longsword.)

I don't see why a 'race' can't get a +1/-1 to a stat like the old days. Helps you with those annoying odd numbers at least. Also decided that whatever parents culture influenced them the most would determine their benefit, otherwise they're standard hal-elves sans the diplomacy bonus. My two cents.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

You may be misinturpreting some of the hate.
I hate them because they should be rare, elves and humans are differernt enough that they would rarely voluntarily produce childeren. I mean would you be able to marry and settle down with someone who you knew was going to die before you reached 35?

Well, the by-the-book elves in D&D are described as a bit aloof and tending towards chaotic good; with their long lifespans, they probably consider almost all non-elves as transitory, anyway.

So, IMO at least, it isn't that much of a stretch to imagine an elf spending a couple of decades with a human they love, before turning back to other elves' company.

I also dislike rapes being common enough to spawn and entire race.

Again, using the PHB racial descriptions as a sort-of baseline, I've always assumed that the majority of half-orcs comes from more-or-less willing inbreeding between chaotic (and/or evil) barbarian tribes and orcs; from there, you may actually get actual half-orc lineages.

As for the actual subject of this thread, I have no conceptual problems with half-races (nor with half-fiends, half-celestials or half-dragons, although all of those should be quite rare); the problem with both half-elves and half-orcs - especially with the latter - is that they're mechanically pretty boring.