Why not make the rapier military?

[TK Lafours]

The impact would be to a fighter, ranger, paladin or warlord, who would now have a choice between the longsword and the rapier, both with the same damage and proficiency bonus.

I think it is superior specifically for when those classes take the rogue multi-class feat. The light blade limitation for backstab is meant to be a limitation and if rapier were martial, the limitation would be meaningless for fighters etc..

Plus, as more books come out we are going to see more powers and feats that use light blade. It will be even more important for fighters etc.. to be balanced by having to use a feat to get access to the best light weapon if they want to combine those coole feats/powers with a good weapon.

 

[Starbuck_II]

But are those really superior to similar attack powers for heavy blades that a weapon doing the same basic damage needs an accompanying feat? I'm unconvinced.

Rain of Blows is a low level Fighter power allowing up to 4 attacks if using a light Blade.

Find a power usable by a heavy Blade that gets up to 4 attacks.

 

[billd91]

Rain of Blows is a low level Fighter power allowing up to 4 attacks if using a light Blade.

Find a power usable by a heavy Blade that gets up to 4 attacks.

From my reading of Rain of Blows, a fighter can do it with a flail or even a heavy flail. Does the extra +1 to hit with the rapier really mean it's that much better than the heavy flail's 2d6 damage that it requires a feat?

 

[eamon]

The fact that the rogue can't use a rapier for his powers without spending a feat should almost automatically imply that a multiclass rogue is no more proficient is executing these powers. Granting a fighter/rogue better rogue powers than a rogue is certainly questionable.

Also, the game will be extended. A future duellist or swiftblade paragon path (or class) may too use light blades effectively. Placing the rapier into the martial group means that either all such new classes must be balanced with the rapier without the cost of a feat or that they aren't capable of wielding martial weapons - which may be impossible, since you can't remove proficiencies from paragon paths.

It's possible to construct superior weapons for every weapon category, as is, without these problems - but if the rapier were a martial weapon, this is not the case, since any improvement to light blades immediately has the potential to unbalance the rogue class.

Do these drawback sound a little far-fetched? Well, consider that the only group of people that actually benefit from making the rapier a martial weapon at the moment are likely to be melee tanks multiclassing into rogue for sneak attack, it's an easy trade off. And if they really care, it's just a feat. Normal melee characters aren't going to be using light blades anyhow.

 

[Korror]

I think you are just trying to save yourself a feat.


They guy(s) who mentioned backstabber/rogue I feel are correct.

The average die roll of a d4 is 2.

he average doe roll of a d8 is 4.

Your are spending a feat on mechanically doubling the amount of average dmg the base weapon will do while still being able to supply sneak attack dmg.

That is worth a feat.

TheNater, is also quite correct. This weapon makes for a nice finesse fighter as well.

*cough* The average of a d4 is (1+2+3+4)/4 = 2.5 and the average of a d8 is (1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8)/8 = 4.5. Your math is a little bit off but your point still stands. I also agree with the rapier's place in the weapon class table because a 1d8 light blade renders the 1d6 short short effectively useless. Offhand just isn't worth that extra +1 damage.

 

[theNater]

From my reading of Rain of Blows, a fighter can do it with a flail or even a heavy flail. Does the extra +1 to hit with the rapier really mean it's that much better than the heavy flail's 2d6 damage that it requires a feat?

Given that the secondary attacks occur only if you hit with the primary attacks, an attack bonus is significant.

Also, the heavy flail is a two-handed weapon. Comparing it to the rapier is not really fair unless you include the gear in the other hand as well.

 

[Tellerve]

Wow, where do you read that Rain of Blows allows 4 attacks?

Tellerve

 

[jaelis]

It allows two primary attacks, and each primary attack that hits grants a secondary attack. The text isn't very clear, but that is the most straightforward way to read it and Cust Serv has confirmed.

 

[Grabuto138]

Just to play Devil's Advocate...this ain't 3e. At any given level you shouldn't assume a primary attack will hit at any better than even-money or so.

 

[Savevsdeath]

And now the Rapier is a Military weapon as of the most recent Character Builder update.