Why not SV Games?

[Cergorach]

I can understand your reasoning, but what's stopping RPGNow from upping their cut to 50%? You sure as hell are willing to pay that...

I can understand that you want more exposure and that this isn't costing you a cent and can even gain you some, but if you find 50% acceptable at SVGames, why not at RPGNow?

 

[Morrus]

I'll worry about that if it happens - I don't think it likely. RPGNow will no doubt continue to undercut SV Games in order to entice publishers to use them, as they have done for ages. Whether such a thing is a viable long-term strategy for RPGNow I couldn't possibly say.

I've also heard hints from SV that he plans to offer facilities which make up for the higher commission, but I can't share that right now, unfortunately.

 

[rpghost]

Here is exactly what the problem with doing that is.

You give the product at a lower price to a competitor.

Competitor thus has more room and in SV Game's case control over your pricing discounts.

Your product is now cheaper for customers to buy at the store that gives you much less of a cut.

You have undercut yourself, you are supporting a site that takes advantage of its publishers and doesn't respond to their needs in a timely manner, and you're making it so we (RPGNow) cannot compete on a level playing field.

Thus if everone does this, RPGNow would have no choice but to also assume such practaces.

James

 

[jmucchiello]

Your product is now cheaper for customers to buy at the store that gives you much less of a cut.

I was wondering about that, Morrus. Who's idea was it to put Quick Shots, LE2, the kids' coloring book, etc up at a discounted price. It sounds, from your comments, that SVGames made that decision. Why would you want SVGames to dictate pricing for your products?

 

[rpghost]

I was wondering about that, Morrus. Who's idea was it to put Quick Shots, LE2, the kids' coloring book, etc up at a discounted price. It sounds, from your comments, that SVGames made that decision. Why would you want SVGames to dictate pricing for your products?

The problem with SVGames is that they think of PDF sales in the same terms they think of book sales. They treat them the same. They BUY the product from you at a discount and price it wherever they feel like it. Yet, they have no warehousing, no middlemen, no shipping costs, etc.

I have spoken about this same subject with WOTC and they were going to inforce some pricing guidelines on SVGames. Obviously they haven't done so yet or SV Games has bothered to comply yet.

SV Games also pays quarterly and based off their OWN printed invoice/report they send you with the payment. They could (and I'm not say the did or would) sell 100 copies of your product and send you an invoice stating they sold 5. Nothing to stop them from doing so. No record of the sales are accessable to you. No client data or mailing lists. No features what so ever to speak of.

Aside from that, it would be interesting to hear if you get many sales. Some the other vendors working there have reported about 1/10th the sales they get at RPGNow. It might be new customers if everything was equal. But if you're cheaper there then that may not be the case.

James
P.S. I'm obviously bias so feel free to point out the errors in my ways. And don't even get me going on eWarehouse 23

 

[Cergorach]

James,

First this was exactly what i was afraid of, selling under the price of other pdf stores.

But, your comment on how they could falsivy sales is a bit below the belt. You could be doing the same for all we know (some custom scripting in your webshop could produce the same results).

SVGames is just not a nice place to shop as a customer, i always feel as if i'm walking around in asterilized hospital hallway. The grumblings about how some CM orders have been handled also doesn't inspire me to great amounts of confidence...

I'm not saying RPGNow is perfect, but a lot better than SVGames...

 

[jaerdaph]

This is kind of off topic because I have had no experience with SV Games and nothing to contribute other than this:

I just want to say that my experiences as a customer with both RPGNow and RPGShop (through the EN World online store) have been nothing but exemplary and I would recommend them highly to anyone who asked for their PDF and print product purchases.

 

[rpghost]

James,
But, your comment on how they could falsivy sales is a bit below the belt. You could be doing the same for all we know (some custom scripting in your webshop could produce the same results).

Yes and no... It's about borderline... as we have live updated sales data, access to mailing lists, etc. Customers know how to contact you. You know how to contact customers. It would not be a simple matter for us to globally cheat anyone.

I don't mean to bash SV Games, I'm sure they are a fine company. Sean used to run things at WOTC before buying out the site to do on his own. But as far as I can see, they have kept the same "big company" mentality. If they were more friendly and paid attention to their customers more - they'd be here responding, wouldn't they? Do they? Have you ever heard much from them other then a banner add on the top of the screen?

In the end, what do THEY do for the industry? Who would you prefer to support?

James

 

[PosterBoy]

Not at all. Getting product in as many places as possible is a good thing, as it exposes that product to people who have never seen or heard of you. There are a lot of people who visit SV Games who, believe it or not, have never heard of EN World or RPGNow - lots of them are those who used to use the old WotC store.

Disclaimer: I'm friends with James and help him out at RPGNow so I'm bias on my thoughts of RPGNow vs SVGames. But I'm a publisher first and here are my thoughts in that regard.

What should publishers not support or sell via SVGames? Because you don’t want the industry commission rate to become 50%, that’s why.

Besides SVGames, there is no “real” alternative that I know to RPGNow for the average PDF publisher. I know there are other sites that sell PDFs, but mostly that’s for specific vendors. So in effect, 20-25% is the current industry standard.

If you sell your PDFs at SVGames, then you’re willing to take 50%. Now if most PDF publishers choose to sell at SVGames, then what incentive does RPGNow have to stay at 20-25%? None. The market has spoken and PDF publishers will have to accept 50% as the industry standard.

So yes, “Getting product in as many places as possible is a good thing” but only if its good for publishers overall. But how is supporting a trend that will ultimately raise the industry standard rate good for publishers? Can you imagine how much less we will make if it’s 50%? Most people complain now that you can’t make enough.

Wait for SVGames to lower their commission rate and then sell there. Then it’s a good thing for us. I’m friends with James, but I would still sell any place that offered similar rates and I trusted to actually pay (which is a whole other issue).

-chris

 

[PosterBoy]

I'll worry about that if it happens - I don't think it likely. RPGNow will no doubt continue to undercut SV Games in order to entice publishers to use them, as they have done for ages. Whether such a thing is a viable long-term strategy for RPGNow I couldn't possibly say.
.

That's kind off short sighted. When it happens its too late.

I've also heard hints from SV that he plans to offer facilities which make up for the higher commission, but I can't share that right now, unfortunately.

They would have to make up for it in volume of sales. Otherwise what feature could they offer? And even if this facility is worth 50%, then James would just match it (I suspect) and then raise his commision rate to 50% and we are back to the above issue.