Why not SV Games?

[Jim Butler]

When SVGames was started (after being spun off by Sean Vanderdasson, who ran the store at WotC), Bastion Press worked with them to get our products featured on the website. It was my hope that the sales we saw through SVGames would be sales that would otherwise be lost--customers who didn't know that RPGNow existed.

SVGames.com charges high commission rates, doesn't pay me for 90 days, and their sales are about 1/10th of what I make in a month from RPGNow.com.

While Bastion's products are still listed on SVGames, I haven't been as energized about getting new products to the store. There's just no profit motive behind us doing so.

Regarding higher commission rates, I believe that as commission rates continue to go up, more and more companies will start handling the downloads on their own through their own website. That will further fractionalize the industry, which I think is a bad thing, but market forces will continue to react to the rising costs imposed on publishers for doing business.

I like RPGNow, and I appreciate the hard work that James and his team does to provide top-notch service, convenient tools, monthly payments, fast turnaround on new releases, and a host of other features and benefits. Right now, I believe that RPGNow is the market leader for downloads because they're reacting fast to the marketplace and really care about their customers.

That's what will keep them in the forefront. PDF sales are a tiny part of the overall business right now, but they're a growing part of the business. The companies that strive to be the best will be the ones that benefit from the boom when it one day arrives.

 

[Kevin R. Brown]

As I see it, getting your product in as many places as possible is to the publisher's advantage.

Then you aren't seeing the whole picture.

If you're willing to slice an extra 30% off your sales, why the heck would you do it just to see your product in the hands of what is quite obviously a poor distributor? For that same commision, you could've just done something useful to increase your sales for the GOOD distributor, like hire an illustrator.

If you want exposure for your product, there are much cheaper ways of gaining it, like asking someone if they'd mind reviewing it for you in return for a complimentary copy, or simply posting an ad in a few of the many forums dotted around the net for just such a purpose.

SV Games won't ever see any of my business (not that they care, of course, being that my operation is a very small one - ). Expecting half the profit from someone's sales simply because you're in a narrower industry isn't good practice.

 

[Master01]

0one Games was selling stuff on SV Games. We signed up about an years ago, but I'm highly disappointed.

The last product we tried to upload was Dangerous Dungeons: Goblin Lairs; for some reason the PDF was too big and their server continually refused it. I wrote and they answered, but the problem wasn't resolved. My last email went unanswered. I uploaded The Legend Of the Steel General 2nd edition but it lies still on their server, unpublished. I wrote emalis but never get an answer.

The service (my point of view) is not worth the 50% they ask, plus they pay quarterly. I'm not uploading anything more, nor I will do.
I still think RPGnow is the best deal for us, small publishers, and if the rates would go beyond 25% many of us would be forced to close.

Just my 2 cents

 

[GameWyrd]

I've just got a job! Woo!

Now. Now. I'm not off topic. Not really. The bosses I work for charge silly amounts of money per hour. Whenever they have to do something the first question they ask themselves is "is it worth my time?". In other words is it worth spending hours doing something to save a few bucks when I could be spending it to earn hundreds more.

Google. Here are some sample Google searches:
rpg pdf
d20 pdf
the best place buy d20 pdf

I could go on. And on. You'll have to have a higher Google stamina than I do to find a SVGames listing there. This is for the consumer. I can only guess at all the better things a publisher could be doing than filling in forms and chasing up sales for a retailer that pays less.

I think SVGames has a lot of catching up to do with RPGNow. Let's not forget features like the banner exchange for gold members or the &src= attribute in the URLs. From what I've read; SVGames controls your prizes whereas at RPGNow you can use the &src attribute to do special offers and other fan-engaging things.

GameWyrd's a fan site. I link to RPGNow rather than SVGames. Why? I can be pretty damn sure the PDF is in RPGNow. Even if I don't have the PDF's ID number in my database I can configure the hyperlink to work through RPGNow's search function and my user will get to the PDF product that way.

Competition is good. I'm Scottish. Adam Smith lived up the road from me. I like competition That doesn't mean I'd encourage publishers to be self sacroficing in the name of competition. Find the business model that works for you and help that one succeed. At the minute publishers seem to get a far better deal with RPGNow and if I was a publisher then I'd do what I can to maintain that in the status quo. Right now, I don't see any advantage in helping SVGames edge into the market with a less attractive deal. Mind you, ENWorld might be the exception. SVGames buy ad banners here so selling EN Publishing products from them becomes a symbiotic circle. Hmm. Unless these SVGames banners encourage people who'd usually buy the PDFs from RPGNow to buy them from SVGames instead - that would be bad - since EN Publishing would make less.

 

[Col_Pladoh]

From what I recall of Fair Trade law, a publisher can not give greater discounts to one or more customers in a class. Thus, if a PDF publisher sells to one at a 50% discount, all like customers are entitled to the same discount. I could be mistaken but...

I think that a publisher can refuse to do business with an outlet that discounts their products.

As for the level of discount for retail operations, I believe the standard for game products is 40%, not 35%, with the distributor getting in the neighborhood of 55% to 60%.

Hekaforge publishes only a vey few PDF products, and we are not aiming at entering this market anytime soon. We are in contact with another publisher interested in doing PDF adventure modules based on the LA game rules, though.

That's sbout the sum of what I can contribute to this discussion.

Cheers,
Gary

 

[philreed]

I've just got a job! Woo!
Google. Here are some sample Google searches:
d20 pdf

Hey! I'm #1!

 

[microtactix]

MicroTactix has never sold through SVGames... and I've heard nothing here that would make me want to do so.

On the other hand, RPGnow has a virtual monopoly on PDF sales in our industry for one real reason -- they're doing the job right. They earn the Gold Vendor commission I give them, and I'm exceedingly happy with the results.

Realize that I say this having NO axe to grind here. In fact, you could argue the opposite. Sandy Antunes and I started the FIRST efforts to do large-scale PDF sales (with ZAPdeliver) and eventually took what we learned there to help create RPGnet's operation. Sadly, Wizard's Attic sank the RPGnet Mall (and took a large chunk of MicroTactix's money with it), something neither Sandy nor I could do a thing to stop.

In the meantime, RPGnow built a good operation, kept making it better, and CONTINUES to do so despite the fact that they have no real competition. Why? They seem to "get it" that this end of the industry has enormous potential and (unlike WA), they understand that it is to their long-term benefit to build the base of publishers and continue to give their vendors excellent service.

So, when we were forced to leave the RPGnet Mall that we, ourselves, helped to create... RPGnow greeted us with open arms, treated us to exceptional service, and generally helped us triple our business in short order. What's more, they seem to do the same thing for vendors with just one or two products, too.

MicroTactix offers almost 100 products now through RPGnow, and I expect we will continue to use them as our exclusive electronic distributors -- simply because they get our products to customers reliably, and give us every tool we ask for to build our business. Why in heaven's name should we CONSIDER giving anyone else a BIGGER cut to do LESS?

Guy McLimore
guymc@microtactix.com
MicroTactix Games
http://www.microtactix.com

 

[rpghost]

From what I recall of Fair Trade law, a publisher can not give greater discounts to one or more customers in a class. Thus, if a PDF publisher sells to one at a 50% discount, all like customers are entitled to the same discount. I could be mistaken but...

I think this is the reason WOTC is right now (has been for 3 months) re-writing their TSR/ESD contract with SVGames to decrease their commission. At the very least its not a "nice" or good practice to do. It is insulting to say the least.

Anyway, we'll gladly sell LA stuff on RPGNow.com (as we did in the past) when you're ready Gary! Oh, and see you at the Game-Universe.com grand opening!

James

 

[Scott Lynch]

Morrus wrote:

I was browsing SV Games' website today, and noticed that very few e-publishers chose to sell there. I was wondering why.

Well, for my part, I'm at a bit of a loss to see why I should pay twice as much of a per-unit bite in exchange for decreased retailer support, less frequent pay-outs, and decreased retailer accountability (in the form of up-to-the-date sales and earnings reports, which I can call up on RPGnow.com 24/7), at a site that apparently does not get anywhere near RPGnow's PDF-buying traffic.

I'm quite willing to experiment, but I just can't see what the SV Games e-tailer setup has to offer in comparison to RPGnow. I sell on my own website and at RPGnow, and to be a realistic contender as a PDF retail outlet, said outlet is going to have to compete with both of those possibilities, and/or expand on their capabilities in a new and interesting fashion.

It's not just a matter of the 50% bite. RPGnow's array of services attracts me, as does RPGnow's solid reputation for paying its retailers on time, every single month. I've been with them for almost nine months now, and I've had eight checks come through on time and without error-- in fact, they even paid us off early before GenCon out of simple courtesy.

Sometimes expanding one's potential customer base is worthwhile. Based on what I've seen of SV Games' setup, meaning no disrespect at all to any of the people working hard to keep their business running, such expansion does not seem to balance favorably with the assorted costs/hassles of signing up with them, as they currently stand.

Cheers and best,

SL
*****
cryptosnark@yahoo.com
cryptosnark_games@yahoo.com

 

[Mystic Eye]

I will chime in here too. I try to remain PC in these issues but here are my facts in a comparison:

I wanted to sell products through both RPGNow and SVGames not knowing either of their pay policies at the time of inquiry.

James at RPGNow, shop, etc responded quickly with a link that explained the entire program clearly.
He and his team helped us to get set up quickly.
They charged 25% and had LOTS of great features for vendors.
They have never let me down of fail to communicate effectively. They report and pay timely.

SVGames:
Took months to respond to my email request.
Sent me a three paragraph FAQ (finally) that told me nothing of value really (did not talk about how the sales are handled, reporting, or anything that would help me) other than the fact they charge double, pay later, apparently have none of the cool service features of RPGNow,etc.
I asked for more; A contract or something and got no reply so I gave up.

I am not a friend or foe of these companies businesses. These are just the facts of my experience. You can take it from there.