Why Psionics is broken and what to do to fix it
- Thread starter wildstarsreach
- Start date
Dagger of Lath
First Post
While I haven't played a psionic before, I've GMed for an Elan Wilder. At 18th - 20th level (he came in very late to a long running campaign), he remained on a roughly equal footing to the Human Arcane Trickster of equivalent level. Can't comment on psion from personal experience, but I found the wilder to be entirely balanced, perhaps even a little underpowered. I certainly wouldn't object as a GM to a player wanting to play a psionic character again.
I guess this partly comes down to the GM and game style. My games feature a lot of very widely varied situations, which tends to reward versatility and the ability to adapt your abilities to the scenario at hand. This brings most spellcasters down to earth but particularly psionics. In a game that was very strongly focused on a single theme or opponent, psionics could become devastating.
Sidenote: I thought 3rd edition psionics were completely broken, but 3.5 fixed the problems I had with them.
I guess this partly comes down to the GM and game style. My games feature a lot of very widely varied situations, which tends to reward versatility and the ability to adapt your abilities to the scenario at hand. This brings most spellcasters down to earth but particularly psionics. In a game that was very strongly focused on a single theme or opponent, psionics could become devastating.
Sidenote: I thought 3rd edition psionics were completely broken, but 3.5 fixed the problems I had with them.
Marcus Smythe
First Post
IcyCool said:
Hug your god-daughter, pet your puppy, and work is more important than gaming debates.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the thread will still be going when you get back.
Frylock
Explorer
Out for Now
Anyway, I've had a lot of good suggestions on how to address this issue in my campaign, and I appreciate that. I'm going to try out some things and see what happens. I also will be monitoring the numbers more closely, which is kind of hard to do because -- wouldn't you know it -- the guy playing the psion is the only one who has ignored my repeated attempts to see his character sheet. (I try not to be a %&$# about it, but that's annoying and suspicious.)
We're not meeting this Sunday, so if I have any further questions I'll post to the thread after that (although I'll probably visit as new ideas are posted). I think I have more homework to do before I can figure out which solution (if any) will work for me.
I was?Tikiman said:
Yeah, I was wondering how I screwed up the tags.
Anyway, I've had a lot of good suggestions on how to address this issue in my campaign, and I appreciate that. I'm going to try out some things and see what happens. I also will be monitoring the numbers more closely, which is kind of hard to do because -- wouldn't you know it -- the guy playing the psion is the only one who has ignored my repeated attempts to see his character sheet. (I try not to be a %&$# about it, but that's annoying and suspicious.)
We're not meeting this Sunday, so if I have any further questions I'll post to the thread after that (although I'll probably visit as new ideas are posted). I think I have more homework to do before I can figure out which solution (if any) will work for me.
wildstarsreach
First Post
Zimbel16 said:
4th level energy adaptation
Here's one of the few psionic powers that freely scale like a wizards spell. This should have an augmenting option for more points.
Tetsubo
First Post
wildstarsreach said:
I think they didn't take the augmentation route to avoid resistance levels that were near infinite. The other path to take would be to make it a costly, higher level power. But that puts it out of reach of those that need it most. I can see why scaled it as they did.
pawsplay
Hero
The rationale behind the OP would apply equally well to saying wizard spells shouldn't be enhanced by metamagic feats such as Empower, Maximize, Heighten, and so forth. Like a psion, the wizard pays the same cost to learn the spell (one spell known), but can fire off the spell at a higher resource cost (4th level slot for maximized magic missile). There's no getting around this, just as they're no way to stop a 15th level fighter from picking up an ordinary greatsword and using Power Attack to split an ogre in half.
If the main beef is the ability of psions, effectively, to give up lower slots for higher slots, then an entirely different approach needs to be taken. Nothing about caps for individual powers prevents psionic characters from repeatedly firing off their high level powers.
Incidentally, a wizard can easily fire off twenty or more level 9 spells a day; they do, after all, get scribe scroll as a bonus feat.
If the main beef is the ability of psions, effectively, to give up lower slots for higher slots, then an entirely different approach needs to be taken. Nothing about caps for individual powers prevents psionic characters from repeatedly firing off their high level powers.
Incidentally, a wizard can easily fire off twenty or more level 9 spells a day; they do, after all, get scribe scroll as a bonus feat.
Nifft
Penguin Herder
Frylock said:
Yeah. Very suspicious. That guy may be broken (even if, as I claim, Psionics is not).
Re: Energy Adaptation: I suspect it scales for free because it's otherwise a weak power. ("Resist" is a passive ability, as opposed to an ability where you control when it applies.)
Cheers, -- N
wildstarsreach
First Post
Bacris said:
On what page did you find this reference?
wildstarsreach
First Post
Based on this list, here are the changes I would suggest to some of the Psionic powers to work at balancing the problems in which I see. Again, this is a suggested house rules and not official dogma.
Energy powers get one type of energy at start. Knowledge skill of Arcana and Psionics required for gaining additional types. A new energy type is learned based on every 8 ranks in each in the skill including all bonuses. Higher level energy powers have same type as the previous ones taken.
Inertial armor would be changed to every 4 PP to augment every +1 AC.
Force Screen would be changed to every 6 PP to augment every +1 AC.
Energy adaptation specified, 2nd level, will only resist one type of energy for 10 points unless augmented. For 2 additional PP's at 9th level, 20 points can be resisted and 2 additional PP’s at 13th level to 30 points of resistance.
Energy adaptation, 4th level, resists five types of energy for 10 points each. For an 2 additional PP's at 11th level, 20 points can be resisted and an 2 additional PP’s at 15th level to 30 points of resistance.
I would change energy conversion to a 9th level power.
Temporal Acceleration, I would change to a 9th level power. This power would give 2 extra rounds. The augmentation for 1 round per 4 additional PP’s still is used. IE 3 additional rounds at 21st level, 4 at 25th and so on. This is not as powerful as Time Stop but with the PP system can be done several times.
Keep augments with regards to DC’s intact but does not change so that augmented of lower level powers is still subject to dispels and globes. Make a separate feat to raise the level of the power based on points spent.
Change the 1st level bonus feat to choose either psicrystal affinity or imprint stone only.
Change hidden manifestation to DC 20 plus the level of the power and a plus 4 more if in combat.
Psychic Crush is basically a save or die power. Any power that puts down an enemy into negative HP will get that NPC killed at the PC’s convenience. This is a 5th level power.
Again, just my suggestions or 2 cents. Also, don't underate the suboptimal builds!
Energy powers get one type of energy at start. Knowledge skill of Arcana and Psionics required for gaining additional types. A new energy type is learned based on every 8 ranks in each in the skill including all bonuses. Higher level energy powers have same type as the previous ones taken.
Inertial armor would be changed to every 4 PP to augment every +1 AC.
Force Screen would be changed to every 6 PP to augment every +1 AC.
Energy adaptation specified, 2nd level, will only resist one type of energy for 10 points unless augmented. For 2 additional PP's at 9th level, 20 points can be resisted and 2 additional PP’s at 13th level to 30 points of resistance.
Energy adaptation, 4th level, resists five types of energy for 10 points each. For an 2 additional PP's at 11th level, 20 points can be resisted and an 2 additional PP’s at 15th level to 30 points of resistance.
I would change energy conversion to a 9th level power.
Temporal Acceleration, I would change to a 9th level power. This power would give 2 extra rounds. The augmentation for 1 round per 4 additional PP’s still is used. IE 3 additional rounds at 21st level, 4 at 25th and so on. This is not as powerful as Time Stop but with the PP system can be done several times.
Keep augments with regards to DC’s intact but does not change so that augmented of lower level powers is still subject to dispels and globes. Make a separate feat to raise the level of the power based on points spent.
Change the 1st level bonus feat to choose either psicrystal affinity or imprint stone only.
Change hidden manifestation to DC 20 plus the level of the power and a plus 4 more if in combat.
Psychic Crush is basically a save or die power. Any power that puts down an enemy into negative HP will get that NPC killed at the PC’s convenience. This is a 5th level power.
Again, just my suggestions or 2 cents. Also, don't underate the suboptimal builds!
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