Why Psionics is broken and what to do to fix it

[wildstarsreach]

Looking through the powers, I found one setback. All the powers that are direct affecting have to go against PR. Those that do not are durational enhancements such as claws or weapons. There is crystal shard which is not subject to PR.

Now, my DM does make it harder, he uses the magic transparency but if a spell reduces the SR, it doesn't reduce the PR. If a creature has SR, then it has equal PR.

 

[FrostedMini1337]

Crystal Shard, if you ask me, is actually one of the most powerful powers in the game.

Touch Attacks are never hard to make, it gives no spell resistance, and that liches immunity to mind effecting won't matter when the crystal flies through his chest. Hell you can weapon focus the ray for that matter.

 

[Zimbel16]

@Zimbel16: As for your second point, I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at. However, when I say 2k damage, I mean 2k damage per target, not total. Actually it would probably be a bit less if you were using a Cone effect (the build relies upon Split Ray quite a bit).

I'm clear on that point; I was simply attempting to make an equivalently silly damage outupt example usuing relatively realistic parameters (against, say, a "swarm" (technical term, not game term) of locusts). I'm sorry if I failed.

Frankly, unless the entire party is min/maxed to this type of extent, the exact numbers here are really irrelevant. Anything which would challenge such a Wiz/Psion/Sor/Druid/... (even when not using the full combo listed here) would be likely insurmountable for any non-major spellcasters (or, possibly, equivalently silly builds). This means, that were I DM, I'd have to either:
1) Remove the PC from the party
Or
2) Reduce the power of the combo substantially (i.e. remove several of the essential elements of that build from the game)

Just to keep the rest of the party relevant. Frankly, in my opinion, the only use for these "I can deal 10^N points of damage/round (where N >= 3)" is to read them to see what should be banned (should it become a problem).

 

[Nifft]

Just dont forget the words of that great philospher, Uncle Ben...

With great powers... come great rice recipes?

-- N

 

[Thanee]

LOL

Bye
Thanee

 

[JonnyFive]

and i declare Nifft the winner

 

[Tikiman]

I'm clear on that point; I was simply attempting to make an equivalently silly damage outupt example usuing relatively realistic parameters (against, say, a "swarm" (technical term, not game term) of locusts). I'm sorry if I failed.

Sorry, my bad. I'm used to people posting things like what you said as actual proofs that the 73k dmg build isn't the king of nova. And the build wasn't meant for actual use either. The creator never expected to see it in play. Think of it more like you would Pun-Pun; as an example of just how far the rules can really be taken. The purpose of the Nova Myth thread was to reply to the dozens of 'Psions are teh kings of Nova, they ruin games' posts. It did seem to do a good job of stopping those posts.

Frankly, unless the entire party is min/maxed to this type of extent, the exact numbers here are really irrelevant. Anything which would challenge such a Wiz/Psion/Sor/Druid/... (even when not using the full combo listed here) would be likely insurmountable for any non-major spellcasters (or, possibly, equivalently silly builds). This means, that were I DM, I'd have to either:
1) Remove the PC from the party
Or
2) Reduce the power of the combo substantially (i.e. remove several of the essential elements of that build from the game)

All wise decisions, but this is another thing that the Nova Myth thread brought to light. When people saw a wizard doing 73k damage their responses were similar to yours. It was the fault of non-core material, it would never actually be allowed at the table, and best of all, it was the player's fault. Nobody even came close to saying that the wizard was overpowered despite what he was clearly, and legally, capable of doing.

Now look at what happens when people post similar things about psions. The instant reply is 'psionics are overpowered, and therefore must be banned/nerfed'. Nobody bothered to look at the character and realize that he was a rediculous monster build, or that he was a one trick pony and turned into a level 20 commoner after he was done. When the forums pointed out the fact that it was the players fault for building such a character (and the DM's for allowing it) the response was ignored/shot down and the 'ban psionics' posts just kept coming. Psions were clearly subject to a double standard.

No offense intended, but look at the OP here. His character is 50% wizard, 50% psion. He's one of the highest level characters in a group, with the most magic items, and with clearly the best build of the bunch. Despite all this his initial reaction was 'psionics did it, and therefore must be nerfed'. And people jumped on the bandwagon. Nobody wanted to fix the problem; they wanted to fix the psion. It took 6 pages of posts, including some from his own DM, to get him to change his opinion and realize that maybe the psion class wasn't the problem (not that Temporal Acceleration isn't a barrel of fiendish were-monkies).

It's this attitude that has earned psions the nickname 'red-headed stepchild of WotC'. Well, that and quantum singularities of bull!@#$ like Complete Psionic. Psi-fans are just a bit jaded and tired of reminding people 'don't blame the psion, blame the player'.

 

[Tsuul]

I am concerened about Wildstarsreach mention that wizards and sorcerers "Doesn't have Heightned feat", which implies that psions do get that free. They don't.

Heighten increases the spell level of a spell. It does not increase damage caps that an arcane caster still suffers from. A psion increasing the damage output of a level one power to the same effect that an arcane caster can achieve with a ninth level power is still throwing a level one power. This can be seen through use of the Globe of Invulnerability series of spells to cancel a 20 die damaging level one power.

A psion augmenting a low level power to include the effects of a high level arcane spell (such as charm > charm monster) is still throwing a level one power.

There is no free Heighten feat effect in play here.

Edit: I just remembered the DC increases for increasing psionic powers. So what is that, half a feat?

 

[wildstarsreach]

I am concerened about Wildstarsreach mention that wizards and sorcerers "Doesn't have Heightned feat", which implies that psions do get that free. They don't.

Heighten increases the spell level of a spell. It does not increase damage caps that an arcane caster still suffers from. A psion increasing the damage output of a level one power to the same effect that an arcane caster can achieve with a ninth level power is still throwing a level one power. This can be seen through use of the Globe of Invulnerability series of spells to cancel a 20 die damaging level one power.

A psion augmenting a low level power to include the effects of a high level arcane spell (such as charm > charm monster) is still throwing a level one power.

There is no free Heighten feat effect in play here.

Edit: I just remembered the DC increases for increasing psionic powers. So what is that, half a feat?

Exactly the but equivalent of a full feat, not all the all of them but many do. Mind Thrust was the first that I ran into. For every 2 dice +1 to the DC and with this particular one would have a +10 DC from dice at 20th level and +1 DC for the level of power + the intelligence bonus. In the case of my character, a DC 30 will save, for 20d10 of damage. If the target fails, an average of a 110 points of damage. If he had the empower feat, this would be a DC 29 with and average damage on failing the save of 149 points. Granted that this is all or nothing but quite powerful. I still think that there are still is some part of the Psion that are broken.

Here's some suggestions that I would make.

Energy powers get one type of energy at start. Knowledge skill of arcana required to gain additional types. A new energy type is learned based on every 8 ranks in the skill including all bonuses. Higher level energy powers have same type as the previous ones taken.

Energy adaptation, 4th level, will only resist one type of energy unless augmented. For each 2 PP's, and additional type of energy is protected against.

Temporal acceleration, augment to be changed to 8 PP for an extra round. This power would not give 2 extra rounds until 19th level. At 19th level you would get 3 extra rounds. Slows down extra attacks.

Just my thoughts for now

 

[Bacris]

Wouldn't the easier option for Temporal Acceleration be to take a note from Complete Psionic and make it a higher level power with negative augmentations?

So make it 9th level, granting 3 rounds, or spend 4 pp less for one fewer round, etc...

And augmentation is not the same as Heighten Spell, as Heighten Spell treats the spell in all ways as higher level, including bypassing effects such as Spell Turning and Globe of Invulnerability. Augmentation does not cover this aspect.