Why punish a player if they can't come to the game?

[ThirdWizard]

If experience is only a marker not an award, why not play from 20th level down to 1st? It's not as if you are penalizing players, only decreasing their character's power level, right? Character levels are just a marker.

Because it is backwards. But, I see nothing wrong with starting a game at level 20. Do you? Do you feel that the players havn't "earned" the right to be 20th level, and thus feel some kind of disgust?

Better yet, (and I've actually suggested this many times to no avail) why not simply play at the level your group prefers and stay there? I prefer 1st level anyways. Maybe the DM is penalizing me by requiring my character to level beyond 1st, hmmm?

Because the campaign grows best when you start at low levels and move to higher levels. Think about these things. Isn't one of the fun parts of D&D the ability to take on bigger and badder challenges? If I want to run a game where the PCs slowly learn about a conspiracy of demons, then by growing in levels the PCs can 1) slowly take on more powerful demons, 2) as the story unfolds the campaign can become more and more epic 3) make the PCs work up to be able to fight enemies who they once were less powerful than.

All snarkiness aside, I believe if you remove required PLAYER learning and accomplishment, from the game, you are simply going through the motions. One of the primary incentives is gone.

That makes no sense to me. You mean the player not understanding the PC's abilities as well if they start at a higher level? We've play enough that that is rarely a big problem. Lots of people play one shots at various levels and have no real problems. I see no problem whatsoever at starting a campaign at a level that will enhance the plot the best.

EDIT: Imagination requires players to be creative. They must create. This means both being in an environment that encourages players to try new things and one where failure is a possibility.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[Belen]

Make up lost time? Do you also have period exams and report cards? What constitutes making up lost time?

I work with the player to do some private RP, ask them to write up a story reason for them to be absent etc.

I didn't say one way was more right than another. Frankly your attitude is far more condescending. You imply that people who can't attend game aren't making as much of an effort as those who do. What right do have to judge a player's effort or lack of effort to attend? If I say I can't make it, my friends accept that I did whatever I could to attend but could not. If that isn't good enough for them, if they doubt that, then they question my integrity. Why should I play with people who don't trust me?

It is very obvious that someone who misses a game (unless for emergencies) have not made the same effort to be there as everyone else. If they made the same effort, then they would not have missed the session. If they gave me advanced notice, then great. The absent player and I can work things out. I have even changed the game night to accomadate someone who would have had to miss otherwise (with enough notice and if everyone agrees.) I am fairly easy to please, but I am not going to just give someone XP. They have to earn it. Everyone else earned it and the absent player will have the opportunity to earn it as well.

In the event that they miss the session and do not want to make it up, then they will lag behind the group. Usually, the entire group levels at the same rate and the absent player will lag behind for one session, then I gradually give more XP to even things out over time.

However, being a member of a group is a committment and I expect people to take it seriously. Just because it is a game, does not mean that it means less.

 

[DonTadow]

The thing that is boggling me is that it is a game? IS d and d athe only game that you would give non-players game rewards. Its just wierd. Its not about people being there or not or punishment. I have a game, I'm playing a game and II give in game things to people playing it. My palyers all have kids and wives and miss games here and there and have no problem not gettign xp. Its not even an issue.

How can you get in game benefits and you're not playing? what other game does that?

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

I think the undercurrent of "I play with mature/adults, so my way is right" is hilarious.

What is similarly hilarious is your posts in this thread when placed alongside your opinions in the "3E, DMs, and Inferred Player Power" thread.

Chiefly, there, you complain that DMs have more rights because they put ever so much more effort into the game than their players ever will or could.

Here, you stipulate that the PCs of players who don't show up get no experience points because, by and large, the players "can't be bothered."

I've figured out your problem, BU. It's not related to whatever system you're DMing. You have crappy players.

 

[Arravis]

Btw Mallus, seems you and I use the same exact XP method. The only thing the players have to keep track of XP-wise is how much they've spend making items, etc.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It is very obvious that someone who misses a game (unless for emergencies) have not made the same effort to be there as everyone else. If they made the same effort, then they would not have missed the session.

Player 1 has no girlfriend, works 30 hour work weeks, and has few extra social activities.
Player 2 has a wife and child, works 40 hours a week, and is a full time student.

Now, are you going to possibly say that both of them have to make the same effort to make it to a game?

The thing that is boggling me is that it is a game? IS d and d athe only game that you would give non-players game rewards. Its just wierd.

How many games change as much as D&D over time though? If you miss a game of baseball or Monopoly, then does that negatively impact the next time you play? You can't compare them effectively.

 

[Belen]

I've figured out your problem, BU. It's not related to whatever system you're DMing. You have crappy players.

No, I have had crappy players. There is a difference. My current group is great. They never miss a session and I love them to death.

What you label a problem, I call a difference of opinion. And where you say "complain," I would use the word argue or comment.

But please feel to keep commenting directly on my person if that makes you feel better.

 

[jmucchiello]

It sounds to me like the difference in XP awards comes from a difference in gaming philospohy. I think that From a GNS perspective it would go like this:

Except that I'm like 75%/15%/10% G/N/S and I still view from character perspective (your simulationist hypothesis).

I think it is more the attitude toward play within the group. If you play with a lot of casual gamers and are yourself a serious gamer, you see an inequity of dedication and prefer that your dedication be rewarded.

A question for those who play with people who will ditch game without calling/bad excuses, are these also typically the players who don't buy gaming books/never know what they are going to do when their turn comes up/etc?

 

[Lord Pendragon]

The thing that is boggling me is that it is a game? IS d and d athe only game that you would give non-players game rewards. Its just wierd. Its not about people being there or not or punishment. I have a game, I'm playing a game and II give in game things to people playing it. My palyers all have kids and wives and miss games here and there and have no problem not gettign xp. Its not even an issue.

How can you get in game benefits and you're not playing? what other game does that?

D&D is a game. But you're thinking of it backwards. Being 12th-level in a 12th-level campaign isn't a reward. It's the status-quo. It's where you need to be to meet the challenges you'll face in the game. To return to the chess comparison, being 12th-level in a 12th-level campaign is like having the appropriate chess pieces on your side of the board. You've got the tools you need to play.

Now imagine a weekly chess game. Only each time real life commitments force you to miss a game, I'm going to take away one of your chess pieces. So after missing three sessions (business trip took you out of state, let's say,) everyone else is still playing normal chess, while you have to play without two pawns and a rook.

Does that sound right to you?

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Now imagine a weekly chess game. Only each time real life commitments force you to miss a game, I'm going to take away one of your chess pieces. So after missing three sessions (business trip took you out of state, let's say,) everyone else is still playing normal chess, while you have to play without two pawns and a rook.

Does that sound right to you?

It is in weekly rat-bastard chess!