Why Put magic Items in The PHB?

[Varianor Abroad]

The days of "magic is unique" do not really seem to exist with D&D. Because magic is a commodity and essentially a set of foci (a la Champions) with powers that are handed out. Play would need radical revision to get items that are special and relatively rare.

 

[Counterspin]

Yeah, just last session we came to a point where there was a great amount of money to be spent and a grand total of 1 copy of the DMG at the table for six people. We decided to put it off til next session and all use the SRD rather than wasting the time. We had.. 4 PHB I think. So this makes lots of sense to me.

 

[Fifth Element]

I don't find the "sense of wonder" argument terribly compelling. If players have access to information about all spells, I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't have the same for magic items.

 

[ideasmith]

Hrmmm that I can understand to a degree... Though in that case, I think I'd rather see a monsters and treasures book... But then I guess monster books never really had treasure in them...

Actually, one of the 'original 3 booklets' was Monsters and Treasure, which had both monsters and magic items. (The other 2 were Men and Magic, and Underworld and Wilderness Adventures.)

 

[timbannock]

I don't find the "sense of wonder" argument terribly compelling. If players have access to information about all spells, I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't have the same for magic items.

I have to agree with that. Even the named abilities of magic arms and armor get referenced fairly often (perhaps not the "standards" from the DMG -- flaming, keen, etc. -- but a lot of the ones that made it into the MIC) at my table, as we have people unable to devote the time or energy to memorizing everything I hand out. We are currently playing high-level 3.5, so there's a lot of information flying around the table. It'd be nice if there were less books flying around at the same time

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I think it's a good idea if:

1) It's in there as an example of how to make a magic item or
2) The PHB was designed to be all that's needed to play (in which case, it'd need some monsters, too).

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I'm a little confused on that one?

Players need to have access to all the abilities that they use. It'll be much easier to not have to pull another book out - I know that we're passing around DMG's in our group a LOT.

From a game rules standpoint, they keep harping on the fact that you don't need magic items because the classes have the power [salespeak]the math works without them.[/salespeak]

Thats not exactly what was said - the MONSTERS don't need magic items for the math to work. That tells us nothing about what PC's need.

Doesn't it take a little of the fun out of things if they already know what everything is? (Especially for the new players and their sense of wonder...)

I think sense of wonder comes from the DM letting you play around with an item the first few times you use it, before you tell them exactly what it is. After that, it becomes much easier to just give them the reference materials and allow them to manage it themselves.

 

[mmadsen]

I don't find the "sense of wonder" argument terribly compelling. If players have access to information about all spells, I can't think of a reason why they wouldn't have the same for magic items.

I think that's a better argument for not giving players access to info about all spells than for giving them info about all magic items.

 

[Fifth Element]

I think that's a better argument for not giving players access to info about all spells than for giving them info about all magic items.

How should the spells be divvied out then? Selecting spells is a pretty basic part of character creation, applying to several classes. Not giving the players everything they need to create a character would not be a big selling point.

I know that in the Red Box, for instance, 1st-level spells were in the player's book and 2nd-3rd were in the DM's book. But I don't think splitting spells into two books ties in very well with streamlining the game.

 

[w_earle_wheeler]

It sounds like a good idea.

Sure, ideally, every single magic item would be mysterious and fill the players with wonder and awe. However, the D&D game has been around for 30 years, and many of the standard magic items are already well-known in gaming culture.

Now, for brand new gamers, I would much rather them not see the details of magic items. Maybe the 4e Basic Set will do things a bit differently?

In any case, having magic items in the PHB makes things easier for the DM.