Why Put magic Items in The PHB?

[theredrobedwizard]

What's with all this "players shouldn't have information also magic items and spells should be spooky and mysterious and only the guy on the lonely side of the screen gets to know what they do" talk? That's up there with "no player should ever look at the DMG" and "I will keep these magic items hidden away, so that the stupid players can't see them". Things like this honestly make me happy I don't play or DM older editions of D&D.

Heck, in my group we don't even bother with the whole identifying items process. It's time consuming, requires an inordinate amount of paper work, and just wastes time. Below is a typical example of what our group went through before we changed the identification rules.

DM: You find a very ornate dagger amongst the coins in the iron shod chest.
PC: Cool. I cast Detect Magic. Does it radiate magic?
DM: Yes.

(several game sessions pass)

PC: Ok, the wizard cast Identify on this dagger. What's it do?
DM: Is that the dagger from the Sunless Citadel, the Forge of Fury, Nightfang Spire, or the Iron Fortress?
PC: Um... I don't know. It just says "dagger, radiates magic" next to it.
DM: *sigh*

-Under the new system-

DM: You find a very ornate dagger amongst the coins in the iron shod chest.
PC: Cool. I cast Detect Magic. Does it radiate magic?
DM: Yes. It appears to be a +1 Constructbane Dagger.
PC: Fun! I am having an enjoyable time.

Ok, so the example is a little silly, but you get the idea. This also saves the DM from having to write everything down. The player can just look the item up in the PHB, where he notes that a Constructbane Dagger has a +2 greater enhancement bonus, as well as dealing an extra 2d6 damage, against Constructs. Yay for learning!

-TRRW

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Heck, in my group we don't even bother with the whole identifying items process. It's time consuming, requires an inordinate amount of paper work, and just wastes time.

Ten years ago I would have strenuously disagreed with you, but these days I'm 100% in your camp - especially for basic stuff. I want things to move faster in my games, and Identifying things is a big drag on that. A Detect Magic and a Spellcraft roll would work fine for me.

 

[Gentlegamer]

If there are magic items in the Player's Handbook, I will not use any of them in my campaigns as DM (outside of the low-level +1 arms and armors, etc.).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

DM: You find a very ornate dagger amongst the coins in the iron shod chest.
PC: Cool. I cast Detect Magic. Does it radiate magic?
DM: Yes.

(several game sessions pass)

PC: Ok, the wizard cast Identify on this dagger. What's it do?
DM: Is that the dagger from the Sunless Citadel, the Forge of Fury, Nightfang Spire, or the Iron Fortress?
PC: Um... I don't know. It just says "dagger, radiates magic" next to it.
DM: *sigh*

I just realized the other day that my Midwood group is carrying around magic items from two or three adventures ago and still haven't been able to identify them. I really need to revise how detect magic works, if 4E doesn't do it for me. (Of course, it doesn't help that one group has almost no Spellcraft between all the characters.)

 

[Scribble]

Really my underlying issue is:

Why do they NEED to be in the PHB is magic items don't play as large a roll in the game.

It would be like putting the treasure tables in there as well.

 

[Kunimatyu]

I just realized the other day that my Midwood group is carrying around magic items from two or three adventures ago and still haven't been able to identify them. I really need to revise how detect magic works, if 4E doesn't do it for me. (Of course, it doesn't help that one group has almost no Spellcraft between all the characters.)

There's a cheapo magic item in the MIC called an artificer's monocle that lets you burn detect magics into it to identify items, if you're interested in a stopgap solution.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

I just realized the other day that my Midwood group is carrying around magic items from two or three adventures ago and still haven't been able to identify them. I really need to revise how detect magic works, if 4E doesn't do it for me. (Of course, it doesn't help that one group has almost no Spellcraft between all the characters.)

I've often been tempted to have many of the more common items be fairly easy to identify with appropriate skill checks:

"Well, it's a short sword, and it has a late Augustinian Regime Frontier Army-style guard and hilt, so it's likely a +2 weapon."

Brad

 

[Tinker Gnome]

My group never uses the Identify spell. The DM will always just tell the player what the mgaic item does.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

Really my underlying issue is:

Why do they NEED to be in the PHB is magic items don't play as large a roll in the game.

It would be like putting the treasure tables in there as well.

While they may not have as big a role in play, they're still going to be there, and players are still likely going to be the primary users, so it makes sense to put them in the PHB.

Brad

 

[Holy Bovine]

The debate here (about identify/detect magic items) is my #1 reason I am loving the Weapons of legacy rules I brought into my games. My players love them too and get very excited about every level wondering what new powers/penalties are coming from their items. I have 2 different groups and am running two different tests of how to implement them. One group went though 'founding' events (1 1/2 sessions) and paid some XP to 'unlock' their items. They have reached the last plateau and will have to spend gold and time to unlock the final abilities. The other group I removed all costs save a standardized cost system that takes away hit points, adds a penalty to a save and renders the wielder vulnerable to a certain type of energy. I think I like the former method better.