Why RPGs are Failing

[Gundark]

this post isn't even worth responding to......oh wait....dammit....

 

[I'm A Banana]

You know, I see no mention in the D&D books of a Roleplaying game being a game that emulates reality in any concievable way; no more so than Monopoly or Chutes and Ladders.

It's a game. Yes, it's a roleplaying game, but that's just one type of game -- a game of where you adopt the roles of characters. This is not something drastically removed from Checkers, not something wholly independant of Pac Man. They are all games, and no game anywhere that I have ever played has ever tried to mimic any sort of reality. Roleplaying games have rules to facilitate the playing of characters by giving them further links to the imaginary world.

 

[S'mon]

Apparently RPGs are failing because of Gaps in the Monster lineup... *sigh*

I guess I agree, but this is a feature specifically of D&D/d20 3e, not the whole RPG maret, AFAIK. 3e seems to have been designed by people much more comfortable with running an abstract skirmish wargame than running an actual role-playing game. The trouble with that is that skirmish wargames are only really fun IMO if both sides are roughly equal, with a good chance to win. If you then apply that to an RPG with continuing characters you get tons of dead PCs and almost no chance for character development. Plus for a wargame, D&D's rules are insanely complicated, & in the wrong places. Games Workshop does it much better.

 

[S'mon]

They are all games, and no game anywhere that I have ever played has ever tried to mimic any sort of reality.

Lots of games attempt to simulate alternative realities, some of them quite mundane, like the WW2 Wehrmacht play-by-mail RPG I used to play in. The (simple) rules were designed to mimic closely the action-reaction cycle of squad level combat and encourage the use of realistic tactics - dash down spot & fire, when in doubt grenade it out, fire suppression, bounding overwatch etc. It did this without complex rules though, just a few pages, much less than the D&D PHB's Combat section.

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

In all cases?

In most cases, at least. Perhaps my players are particularly bloodthirsty, but fight or flight seems to be the standard response when it comes to what they percieve to be the "evil races".

If they want to do something other than "fight or flight", then they only have to say so. And it often happens that groups of intelligent creatures they encounter hesitate and try to access the situation for a round or two. But I can usually rely on some dwarf to shout "Charge" at this point...

Trying to intimidate the goblins to back off usually is an option, at least when I am GMing. But it's not an option they try frequently...

Not the sort of realism I am thinking of. For all that D&D® has rules, for all that the action takes place in an imaginary setting, RPGs are more like real life in that one cannot reliably predict what's going to happen. Unlike Frodo, the typical adventuring party doesn't have a Gollum to (inadvertantly) bail them out when they mess up. So when they do mess up they do, or really should, have to deal with the consequences of their folly.

As the old saying goes, feces occur. How you deal with that is your business.

Oh, there have been plenty of occasions when the PCs did something extraordinarily stupid that made their present situation much, much worse. But that can't really be a function of the rules themselves, but of GM judgement.

 

[Joe123]

They've stopped being RPGs. The meme seems to be, RPGs are a game, and must be played as a game. One must adhere strictly to the rules, and if the rules do not allow for an action, or an action by a particular playing piece, then that action cannot be performed.

You don't have to play strictly according to every D&D rule, you can remove certain rules, invent your own to tailor the gaming experience to suit your needs, which makes the notion that D&D is failing because you have to follow the rules, completely untrue and a fallacy.

 

[Psion]

Come back GDS, all is forgiven.

Fixed yer typo...

 

[hong]

Come back GMS, all is forgiven.

Fixed yer typo...

Sorry.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Well, I have not read every post in this thread, but I am wondering what exactly the point of the original post is, other than to stir up the hornet's nest. I think there are a variety of games to be played out there; some that are looser in rules, stronger emphasis on roleplaying, others that are the other direction. I don't think all RPGs are going down the exact same path and while the d20 system has become very popular and is attracting a lot of companies to produce material for it, it is not the ONLY game in town.

If you do not like the d20 system at all, don't play it. If it IS the only game in your town, remember that any d20 game can be what you want through the use of House Rules. If you can convince your players to go along with you and are willing to throw out 75% of the d20 rules and just roleplay, great for you! If you cannot find these people, don't blame the game industry for making what seems to be selling, or for people buying and playing something that does not fit what YOU want in a game, but they are enjoying.

And if all you want is to roleplay without structure AND get attention, join an improv troupe...but even there you will find that there are some rules (check out Whose Line is it Anyway to see).

 

[BryonD]

Have RPGs been failing for their entire existence?

If yes, then please let me know how much longer it will take for them to finish failing. I mean, if we are only half-way there then I'm not worried because I very possibly won't be playing after the second 35 years are complete anyway...

If no, then please let me know how the earlier versions, before they started failing, successfully addressed these terminal issues.

Thanks